A Big Hole In The Rules?

[Magic Rub]

The "Forsaker" prestige class from "Masters of the wild". Says your Character can NEVER use magic, willing have it cast on him/her, or wield magic weapons. So yes of course it's barred to all the Arcane & Divine spellcasting classes. All magic... Shadow or regular weave, divine, what ever system you're using, magic is magic. However what about Psionic's? Being that psionic energy it's not magic & there is no where in "Forsaker" prestige class that says you can't use psionic items, have psionic classes, or be willingly affected by psionic power.

And don't try to tell me...
"But Magic Rub, Psionics is like magic. . . .(and so on)"

I think it's just a big ol' hole that no one thought to plug.

Your thoughts & arguments I await...(crap, sorry to much Star wars over the last few weeks)

 

[kreynolds]

I think it's just a big ol' hole that no one thought to plug.

I guess it depends upon whether or not you play in the Forgotten Realms. The FRCS states that if you use psionics in the Forgotten Realms, anything that can adversely affect magic, such as a dead magic zone, will also affect psionics. So, technically, they are the same thing.

Outside the FRCS, who knows for sure, but I wouldn't allow it either way. The only difference between psionics and magic is die rolls and descriptor text.

 

[Zhure]

Forsaker prerequisitites, direct quote: "and renounce the use of any spellcasting and spell-like abilities he previously used."

Psionic Powers are "spell-like abilities" as are attack and defense modes (although attack and defense modes don't provoke AoOs).

The one area you could argue is that the psionic feats aren't specifically mentioned as being spell-like.

Greg

 

[Magic Rub]

I don't want to allow it in my game either, it seems too unbalanced. I'm just looking for good reasons not to. As a player I would love this, but as a DM this is hell waiting to happen. Players in my sessions will want to be all over this like white on rice if I don't find a good reason to restrict it. The more I can say against it the better.

Oh I can hear the crying now... "But but but... fine but you're full of #$@*&... but but but..." and so on.

 

[gfunk]

I don't want to allow it in my game either, it seems too unbalanced. I'm just looking for good reasons not to. As a player I would love this, but as a DM this is hell waiting to happen. Players in my sessions will want to be all over this like white on rice if I don't find a good reason to restrict it. The more I can say against it the better.

Oh I can hear the crying now... "But but but... fine but you're full of #$@*&... but but but..." and so on.

I have to disagree with you that this class if overpowered. Not being able to use magic items is a major crippling factor. Think about something as simple as flight, which is so important in high level combat. The Forsaker is permanently grounded (barring a Half-Fiend or Half-Celestial Forsaker I suppose).

Also, the Forsaker's SR is pathetic unless combined with another class with SR such as a Drow or Deep Gnome.

Finally, there is the RP factor of having to destroy magic items that your party might be able to use, just to keep your powers.

 

[Zhure]

Even more crippling, Forsakers cannot be raised from the dead, because if their spirit agrees, they lose all class abilities for a year. Forsakers are kind of useful and seem cool, but IMO are completely unplayable.

Greg

 

[RangerWickett]

How about this one?

"Dudes, the class is powerful enough, and it's balanced so that it's strong even without magical powers. Psionics is a lot like magic, so if you had psionic powers as a Forsaker, it'd be unbalanced. So unless you all want to play psionic Forsakers, somebody in the party is going to get the shaft, which won't be any fun for that person. And even if you _do_ all want to play psionic Forsakers, realize that you're unbalancing the game, and that I'll have to give you more powerful challenges to compensate. And if you just want to be more powerful so your foes won't be dangerous, where's the fun in that? Would you prefer I had you fight grandmothers and kittens?"

Ugh. Psionic forsakers is a funny idea, but actually going through with it is unbalancing, one might even say unfairly power-gaming. And I hate people who power-game too much. Ask me some time about the half-dragon were-tiger barbarian/frenzied berserker.

 

[Jeremy]

What happened with the 54 strength half-dragon were-tiger barbarian/frenzied berserker?

 

[Xarlen]

Even more crippling, Forsakers cannot be raised from the dead, because if their spirit agrees, they lose all class abilities for a year. Forsakers are kind of useful and seem cool, but IMO are completely unplayable.

Greg

In my game, you Can't be raised. Most religions Don't do it, unless you owe the church bigtime. Not to mention the Collector of the Dead will fight you for the soul, and if you even win, spiritual bounty hunters come after to Get the dead.

Psionic abilities are either A) Spell like abilities, or B) Magic. Because either they can be effected by magic, or they're not, and considered spell like abiltiies. Either way, the Forsaker class has to give them up. So, where's the unbalancing factor?

I think the prospect of a character being over 10th level and NOT relying on magical items to be Very Cool, IMHO. Insane, but it's an earthy, independant 'relying on your abilities' sorta thing.

 

[Xarlen]

What happened with the 54 strength half-dragon were-tiger barbarian/frenzied berserker?

I quit the game. He had a 52 strenght, by the way.

The guy who ran that character, I played in the game he DMed. Bad DM. He only catored to the 'Big guy who hit things'. The two times that I ever successfully did something with my transmuter (Turned a hydra into a chicken, and a Purple Worm into a duck), he had outside forces turn them back. So, I basicly just cast mass Haste on the party, tossed a lightning or two, and was otherwise useless.

Quit that game too.