D&D 5E A brief rant about Rime of the Frost Maiden, farming, logistics, and ecology

[Zaukrie]

Short version: instead of looking at the mod as a whole, I'm going to continue to harp on one thing with laser like focus on a couple of lines of fluff that I disagree with.

As far as my posts I'll repeat. I think giving opinions and advice on how to increase the enjoyment of our hobby (even if a mod has two lines of fluff I find problematic) is useful. Endlessly complaining about something I will never change is not.

It's literally the purpose of this thread. Not to discuss the whole module, but what, if anything people should change given the winter.

 

[Chaosmancer]

The words in bold are key. You can't really argue with that statement as written. If it's an issue for you then you should address it, without a doubt. It isn't an issue for me, but that's at the same level of personal taste and style. This only turns into an issue when you take those two bolded words out and people start trying to argue about absolutes, which is silly IMO. The fact that I might present reasons why this sort of detail doesn't bother me, and ways that I might deal with the inconsistency in play, is not me suggesting that everyone should adopt my answer, nor that their issues are baseless.

You're right, I can't make a claim on how big of an issue this is for you. Or most other people. And from the amount of dismissal I and others who do have this issue have recieved, it is clear that others don't have this problem.

And, a lot of people have said that our issues are baseless. In fact, you yourself made this statement:

Anyone who wants to get all tangled up based on a single line of fluff text is probably having less fun than me. I never worry about crap like this, I can change it or tell the story slightly differently if I want to, or I can treat like the text of a story where the description has some dramatic license baked in. If the players care about the question they can play to find out and we can find out how the 10 towns survived winter's embrace together.

So, according to your own assertion, I am having less fun than you. I'm worrying about "crap" instead of focusing on just enjoying myself.

And, as we have found, it is more than a single line of fluff text. Not only is there the line in the opening about it being two years of darkness and winter, but as was shown when you find a description of Auril casting the spell, it has been an immediate effect. This "single line of fluff text" is in fact the entire point of conflict. Auril has cast a spell that has left Icewind Dale in Darkness and extreme winter for two years.

One of the first adventures you can have is going out on a lake to confront a fish monster destroying boats. And you are told that because a sage interrupts a greedy dwarf who was going to send you out to fish without that knowledge. Purely because he wants to make a profit, not because, oh, I don't know, people are starving in the streets due to limited supplies and most of the big game dying off due to an endless winter.

We have human sacrifice to break the curse side by side with "business as usual".

It isn't a problem for you, I get that. But I can bold those two little words as well, and point out that just because it isn't a problem for you, doesn't mean it isn't a problem for the structure of the module.

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I understand that you feel that way (and that's okay), but I disagree that it would somehow be changed to an inconvenience - the idea of the situation getting gradually worse not only doesn't stop it from being an apocalypse (in fact, if it continues to get worse from there than it really would be absolutely terrible) - it just deals with the "How is anything still alive?" question. (Along with stuff like Druids and Clerics helping out as best they can).

It's still a horrible situation to be in, and (to me at least) still allows for things like cannibal cultists. I for one, would not play any of it as a simple inconvenience, but anyone who wants a lighthearted romp in the snow could play it that way if they choose to.

Which sounded like a reasonable solution, until it was pointed out that the module is actually fairly explicit. Her spell prevents the sun from rising. The situation did not gradually get worse, except potentially in terms of the cold (which would have been very quick, as we do all tend to know that it gets colder at night fairly quickly) one day, two years ago, the sun did not rise.

We would actually have to change, not only the text in the intro to describe it slowly growing worse, but also change the spell Auril is casting, to instead have been a slow changing of the day cycle, instead of just a complete stopping of the sun.

And also remember, the Druids and Clerics helping was something we added in as well. Of course we can keep adding things to make this better, but at some point I think it is fair to acknowledge that there was a mistake made, because the module presents us with two versions of events, both of which cannot be true.

 

[robus]

What's funny is that I did a quick google for reviews. I stopped after 3 because the conclusions were similar. "Rime of the Frostmaiden is well worth the trouble." "It’s a book I’ll definitely be using in future campaigns." "The first half of Rime of the Frost Maiden is good, and the second half is great. But the final exploration of Ythryn is spectacular."

Also funny, none of these reviewers have actually run the adventure.

 

[Fenris-77]

Having less fun? Pretty obviously. You're worried and need to change stuff and I don't. It wasnt a relative worth statement, just the obvious.

Going out and looking for things to be offended about is a step beyond, my good man. I've been chill and non judgemental in this thread. Relax.

 

[FitzTheRuke]

Which sounded like a reasonable solution, until it was pointed out that the module is actually fairly explicit. Her spell prevents the sun from rising. The situation did not gradually get worse, except potentially in terms of the cold (which would have been very quick, as we do all tend to know that it gets colder at night fairly quickly) one day, two years ago, the sun did not rise.

We would actually have to change, not only the text in the intro to describe it slowly growing worse, but also change the spell Auril is casting, to instead have been a slow changing of the day cycle, instead of just a complete stopping of the sun.

And also remember, the Druids and Clerics helping was something we added in as well. Of course we can keep adding things to make this better, but at some point I think it is fair to acknowledge that there was a mistake made, because the module presents us with two versions of events, both of which cannot be true.

I mean, sure, we talked about the Druids and Clerics, but I don't know if I'd say we "added" them. They've always been in D&D and are all over the place in the adventure. I mean, it doesn't spend time telling us exactly how they're keeping everyone alive, but one could assume they are, just based on how the D&D world works.

The spell Auril is casting wouldn't really need to change much - it just took time to build to its full power.

 

[Laurefindel]

I mean, sure, we talked about the Druids and Clerics, but I don't know if I'd say we "added" them. They've always been in D&D and are all over the place in the adventure. I mean, it doesn't spend time telling us exactly how they're keeping everyone alive, but one could assume they are, just based on how the D&D world works.

The spell Auril is casting wouldn't really need to change much - it just took time to build to its full power.

-2 years: Auril casts her spell. By spring it becomes clear that the sun isn’t as high as it should be, and days are still short. Spring comes late. People find it weird but hey, weird naughty word happens all the time...

-18 months: Summer was short, harvest was bad this year. Sun is still too low for early fall. Winter comes early. People brace for a long winter. Hopefully next year will be better.

-12 months. Winter was long and hard. By all standards it still is winter, although it should be spring by now. People hope for a good summer to catch-up. Many contemplate moving out of the area. Special provisions and imports are made.

-6 months. Days are almost as short as winter solstice early in fall. Winter is early again. Many fields freeze before yielding crops. Low birth rate in wildlife in the springs now shows. Game is rare, Wolves and predators become more daring. People start to take more desperate measures.

now: this times winter isn’t going to end. The sun hasn’t moved since winter solstice. If anything it is lower now. Temperatures are lower now than they have ever been. Spring isn’t gonna come. People start to do crazy naughty word now. Intervention, heroic, divine, or else, is the only foreseeable solution...

 

[Jfdlsjfd]

Did the Icewind Dale (pre-Auril intervention) having polar night in winter and midnight sun in summer ?

 

[Umbran]

I find it amusing that the people who are arguing that flavor-text and fluff of a module is no big deal and the DM can change it if they want spent a lot of the summer debating lines of fluff describing Chult, Vistani, orcs, and drow. Maybe the fluff is more important than people want to give credit to after all?

Mod Note:

I do not find it at all amusing that after a moderator has noted that people should be kind and respectful, someone continues to make the discussion personal.

That's a second warning to the thread. Don't expect a third.

 

[Laurefindel]

Did the Icewind Dale (pre-Auril intervention) having polar night in winter and midnight sun in summer ?

I'm pretty sure it does, but can't quote it right now. It is my understanding that in RofFM, Auril effectively locked Icewind Dale in a perpetual polar night.

 

[Oofta]

It's literally the purpose of this thread. Not to discuss the whole module, but what, if anything people should change given the winter.

The premise of the thread as stated in the OP is that "I have a problem with this so this is how I would fix it". If people expressed their concerns and then stated "this is how I would modify it", this thread probably would have gone on for a page or two.

I agree that at a certain point life will end, but personally I think people underestimate how resilient and resourceful people (and wildlife) will be.
So if I were to run this mod, I'd probably not make a big deal of it and borrow the "gradually getting worse" someone else suggested if it ever comes up. But the basic premise is that spring should be springing and it's not, so the fundamental premise is the same. Fix it, or the region becomes a frozen lifeless wasteland.