A Cantrip That Does Fireball Damage?!?!?

[Syntallah]

Wow, just took a look at the Sword Burst cantrip from SCAG, and... Wow... This thing has the potential to do 3rd level Fireball damage* as a cantrip?!?!? How did this pass the Whoa Police?!?!?

*the tank EK is wanting to take it. If he is surrounded by 8 goblins (entirely possible and likely), that's 8x 1d6 damage** with Dex save
**I am aware that a Fireball would do 64d6 to the 8 goblins... BUT, if the EK drops a Fireball on the 8 goblins surrounding him, then he takes Fireball damage too. Not to mention that he just expended a 3rd level spell slot, a significant resource. Sword Burst is a freakin' cantrip! At-will, no resource, eat ghost blades and suck it goblin scum...

 

[TallIan]

Not quite. Each creature in SB range takes 1d6. Each creature in FB takes 8d6. So if you dropped FB on your nicely close group of enemies FB would deal 64d6 damage.

Sword burst is pretty good though, the drawback being that your enemies have to be within hitting distance of you.

 

[akr71]

No, that's 1d6 damage per goblin on a failed Dex save. Zero on a successful saving throw. The damage to each opponent does not go up with each opponent in the area of effect. By that line of thinking, a fireball would do 64d6 damage to those same 8 goblins.

Each creature within range, other than you, must succeed on a Dexterity saving throw or take 1d6 force damage.

 

[Caliburn101]

Wow, just took a look at the Sword Burst cantrip from SCAG, and... Wow... This thing has the potential to do 3rd level Fireball damage* as a cantrip?!?!? How did this pass the Whoa Police?!?!?

*the tank EK is wanting to take it. If he is surrounded by 8 goblins (entirely possible and likely), that's 8x 1d6 damage with Dex save

Perhaps you have misunderstood the situation here.

By using your method here, a fireball against 8 Goblins would do 64d6.

This cantrip may be able to hit 8 targets in absolutely optimal conditions, but it is point blank - which isn't a situation to use a cantrip in - for any class capable of using this, there is likely to be something much better to do with your turn when completely surrounded...

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

Does Sword Burst hit everyone within 5ft, or only targets that you nominate? Having to keep away from your allies and allow yourself to be surrounded seems like a pretty big drawback.
The damage isn't amazing either considering you're talking about a Fighter taking it. Generally your weapon attacks will have a better chance to hit (since Int is probably not your highest stat) and have a better chance of eliminating enemies though higher damage.

 

[Hayden Steele]

lets take some targets with an arbitrary health value since goblins are very unlikely to survive a fireball. And also lets set the caster to level 5 cause that's the earliest you can get access to fireball

Sword burst:
2d6 to 8 targets averages 56 in total. that's 7 damage EACH (thats the important bit)

Now a fireball on 8 targets is 8d6 to EACH target. That's 28 damage each on average each resulting in about 224 damage total

 

[Syntallah]

I don't know how to do the multi-quote thing, so I'll just address the applicable posters above:

I am well aware that a Fireball would do 64d6 to the 8 goblins... BUT, if the EK drops a Fireball on the 8 goblins surrounding him, then he takes Fireball damage too. Not to mention that he just expended a 3rd level spell slot, a significant resource. Sword Burst is a freakin' cantrip! At-will, no resource, eat ghost blades and suck it goblin scum...

 

[CapnZapp]

When the OP says "Fireball damage" he means 8d6.

When this cantrip deals 1d6 damage to eight goblins it deals 8d6 damage.

Hence "fireball damage".

 

[TwoSix]

I can almost guarantee that you could go your entire adventuring career with Sword Burst and never actually hit, or even target, 8 enemies with it.

 

[TallIan]

When the OP says "Fireball damage" he means 8d6.

When this cantrip deals 1d6 damage to eight goblins it deals 8d6 damage.

Hence "fireball damage".

Yes, we get that, but to compare like for like you would have to have your fireball hit 8 targets therefor doing 64d6 damage.

So while SB is a hugely powerful cantrip, in the right situation, it still doesn't compare to fireball.