A couple abilities in Martial Power seem WAY too good...

[lgw]

Please fix your numbers - you won't last double as many rounds without heavy investment into CON and feats, which then means you lose much more than a +1 to hit. Furthermore an avarge fighter easily has two to-hit rolls per round, accounting for burst powers, Combat Challenge and OAs.
So don't compare apples to oranges, please, because it really doesn't help the issue.

 

[Plane Sailing]

Healer's Lore adds Wisdom mod (4) to healing and Healing Word adds D6.

I forgot the d6. Don't include healer's lore in the calculation though, as Warlords don't get it.

I can see the maths, and I can't tell you why it doesn't feel right (other than the cleric has two healing words he can use on two party members and that's it, while the temp hp just keeps on giving and makes the BRV fighter not have to worry about having a healer along.

The temp hp thing can almost be like having the 'Regeneration' daily utility power on all the time, which seems like a bad thing to me.

Cheers

 

[KarinsDad]

Should a single minion be a threat? Honestly?

A threat to do some damage, yes. Absolutely.
A threat to do no damage, no. Never.

If a minion (or even multiple minions) cannot damage the PC at all (outside of round one), why exactly should the DM have minions in the combat? What's the point? To roll dice?

That's not why I play the game. As a player, I play to have fun and be challenged, not to yawn as the opponent's attacks bounce off the broken game feature du jour Damage Reduction.

The rule as written is mechanically broken. It's obvious that the designer of it never took minions into consideration at all. Not for a second.

And that typically is the risk that splat books pose. If the game designer is not on his toes, all kinds of unintended flaws and powerful combos can be introduced.

 

[Plane Sailing]

Please fix your numbers - you won't last double as many rounds without heavy investment into CON and feats, which then means you lose much more than a +1 to hit. Furthermore an avarge fighter easily has two to-hit rolls per round, accounting for burst powers, Combat Challenge and OAs.
So don't compare apples to oranges, please, because it really doesn't help the issue.

But if +1 to hit is really, really hard to get, how is he missing out? He can't invest in a "+1 to hit feat" and everyone has enough feats to get most of the stuff they really want.

Looks like he is comparing apples to apples from here...

 

[KarinsDad]

Please fix your numbers - you won't last double as many rounds without heavy investment into CON and feats, which then means you lose much more than a +1 to hit. Furthermore an avarge fighter easily has two to-hit rolls per round, accounting for burst powers, Combat Challenge and OAs.
So don't compare apples to oranges, please, because it really doesn't help the issue.

Fine. 22 hits in 20 rounds versus 40 hits in 40 rounds.

40 is still greater than 22.


And yes, let's compare apples to apples. Take any two Fighters with a CON of at least 12 and with the exact same ability scores, feats, equipment, etc. The BVD Fighter will last longer and average more damage because of even one temp hit point per successful opponent hit.

Most low level opponents average 4 to 10 damage per hit. Even a 12 CON at level one is a 14% decrease in average damage taken or a 14% increase in number of rounds survived vs. a 10% increase in average damage. A 14 CON makes that a 28% less damage taken per round. That adds up round after round after round compared to the Fighter who might if he is lucky, hit that one extra time in 20 in an entire encounter (assuming he gets 20 attacks in during an encounter which would not typically be the norm, not every encounter lasts 10 rounds and not every round results in the Fighter swinging 2 or more times).

Sure, ranged and area attacks will not give the bonus hit points, so there are scenarios where the +1 to hit shines more. But the temp hit points do not care what type of damage they are negating and the vast majority of creatures in the monster manual have melee attacks.

 

[chaotix42]

I see no reason for said creatures not to switch to range attacks if their melee is not working (goblin sharpshooters for the win). Most minions have some form of range attack that has the same attack and damage as their melee. Also if the creatures should notice how tough it is to take down the defender and will just focus their attacks on another PC

Most minions don't have some form of ranged attack. In the MM the only minions with ranged attacks are the very low-level ones, like skeletons, halflings, humans, and kobolds. If you're allowing a BRV fighter then it's probably a good idea to give most of your minions ranged weapons/attacks, though.

Finding out the fighter is invincible and switching attention to another PC is not my idea of a good time. Once again, I'd like to challenge the whole group at once.

I would rather play a high Str/Wis TWF fighter with feats that incease my bonus to hit with OA's. A true sticky warrior.
A BRV in my group would just be mocked for being usless. "Oh boy lots of Temp HP's now do something that actually helps us." Face it, if you are going for the high Con BRV then you are sacraficing Str and Wis.

The game I DM has a 12th lvl dwarf fighter with 20 Str, 20 Con, and 15 Wis. His Int/Dex is low but he uses a heavy shield to make up for it. So no, this high Con fighter is not sacrificing Str or Wis.

He started as a Weapon Talent fighter, then switched to BRV when MP came out. He didn't change a thing except the class feature, and even kept his scale mail. BRV made his fighter way better than it was before. He lost +1 to hit and gained insane amounts of survivability. In the few sessions he was a BRV that +1 to hit mattered only once or twice.

 

[Prism]

This is not just a defensive gain, it is a HUGE offensive gain. Magnitudes larger than +1 to hit.

Assuming the fight lasts more than 6-7 rounds and the fighter would fall unconsious in that time without the temporary hits. Unless/until that happens the WT fighter is ahead

The main trouble with the battlerager, as others have said is that he doesn't give the monsters any real reason to attack him, and can't do as much about it if they don't. The attraction to push CON can be a major downside compared with WIS. The last thing a battlerager needs is more healing surges. And since we are talking about martial power, the battlerager is going to lost out on the marked scourge feat benefits

 

[Prism]

The game I DM has a 12th lvl dwarf fighter with 20 Str, 20 Con, and 15 Wis. His Int/Dex is low but he uses a heavy shield to make up for it. So no, this high Con fighter is not sacrificing Str or Wis.

Or you could say they are sacrificing 5 points of Wis, depending on how you look at it . Thats a big boost to will defense, OA's and possible damage output

 

[Sunglare]

Most minions don't have some form of ranged attack. In the MM the only minions with ranged attacks are the very low-level ones, like skeletons, halflings, humans, and kobolds. If you're allowing a BRV fighter then it's probably a good idea to give most of your minions ranged weapons/attacks, though.

Finding out the fighter is invincible and switching attention to another PC is not my idea of a good time. Once again, I'd like to challenge the whole group at once.



The game I DM has a 12th lvl dwarf fighter with 20 Str, 20 Con, and 15 Wis. His Int/Dex is low but he uses a heavy shield to make up for it. So no, this high Con fighter is not sacrificing Str or Wis.

He started as a Weapon Talent fighter, then switched to BRV when MP came out. He didn't change a thing except the class feature, and even kept his scale mail. BRV made his fighter way better than it was before. He lost +1 to hit and gained insane amounts of survivability. In the few sessions he was a BRV that +1 to hit mattered only once or twice.

Whatever, Ryu Hadoken FTW

 

[chaotix42]

Now that I can get behind!

Or you could say they are sacrificing 5 points of Wis, depending on how you look at it . Thats a big boost to will defense, OA's and possible damage output

Hmmmm, true. When I see 3 out of 6 stats as high as they can go I don't really think any were "sacrificed," but you have a good point - that 20 Con could be Wis instead.