A DM's judgment...
- Thread starter Trainz
- Start date
Numion
First Post
I don't know if there are hard rules for this kind of thing, but the DM could've used common sense. This encounters set-up was stacked against the PCs, since giants generally don't use much magic, whereas the PCs do. So he should've awarded more XP.
Good for you if it was fun; it doesn't mean that the DM couldn't improve, though.
Good for you if it was fun; it doesn't mean that the DM couldn't improve, though.
Bryan Vining
First Post
Missing the point
And no, the point isn't that you had fun, although it is certainly good that you did.
Your DM is hiding something from you. (S)he is keeping back something that has made him/her upset. The could giant encounter was an unconcious way of making you pay for that thing. A conversation needs to be had, but you must first look to yourself to see what thing about the DM's way of running the game has annoyed you in the past that you haven't spoken up about. Look hard, it's there. Once you find it, you and your DM need to talk about what's bothering you with the other. This should be done in a spirit of concern and friendship, not as adversaries.
Good Luck!
And no, the point isn't that you had fun, although it is certainly good that you did.
Your DM is hiding something from you. (S)he is keeping back something that has made him/her upset. The could giant encounter was an unconcious way of making you pay for that thing. A conversation needs to be had, but you must first look to yourself to see what thing about the DM's way of running the game has annoyed you in the past that you haven't spoken up about. Look hard, it's there. Once you find it, you and your DM need to talk about what's bothering you with the other. This should be done in a spirit of concern and friendship, not as adversaries.
Good Luck!
Numion
First Post
Trainz said:
Not necessarily. Just remember that most of the people here (people who frequent the boards, in other words) are DMs mroe than players. And most DMs have this "my word is the law" thing going.
I'm a DM mostly meself, but I usually discuss controversial rulings with players.
Buttercup
Princess of Florin
There isn't a right way or a wrong way to dole out XP. It's best, though, if everyone around the table is comfortable with whatever method is used. Obviously, Trainz isn't completely happy with his DM's method. The thing is, all any of the rest of us can do is tell him what method we use. (For the record, I tell my players when they have leveled up, but I don't make a big deal about XP for individual encounters, even if I'm keeping track.)
So here's my advice. Talk to your DM, but don't do it in 'attack mode'. Just express your concern in a relaxed, friendly manner. Maybe there's something your DM didn't think of. Don't forget though, that maybe you *are* just being anal.
Good luck, Trainz!
So here's my advice. Talk to your DM, but don't do it in 'attack mode'. Just express your concern in a relaxed, friendly manner. Maybe there's something your DM didn't think of. Don't forget though, that maybe you *are* just being anal.
Good luck, Trainz!
the Jester
Legend
First of all, I sympathize with you.
Secondly, while the dm has every right to adjust the xp he gives for circumstances, he is not obligated to. In my experience, most dms give out xp differently than the standard 'book' method. I do. I know that some dms just plain halve all the xps their pcs earn, or even less (I've heard of dms awarding 1/12 standard).
If it was me, I'd prolly have given you an extra 50% on the award or something like that. It sounds like a tough fight, and I try to give a little extra if the EL warrants it.
Secondly, while the dm has every right to adjust the xp he gives for circumstances, he is not obligated to. In my experience, most dms give out xp differently than the standard 'book' method. I do. I know that some dms just plain halve all the xps their pcs earn, or even less (I've heard of dms awarding 1/12 standard).
If it was me, I'd prolly have given you an extra 50% on the award or something like that. It sounds like a tough fight, and I try to give a little extra if the EL warrants it.
Sanackranib
First Post
exp award
it all comes down to how the DM wants to run the game. in my game the PC's are getting fixed exp reguardless of what they fight or if they fight at all (the point of that is slower level progression to keep them at the mid levels (which are more fun) for a bit longer
it all comes down to how the DM wants to run the game. in my game the PC's are getting fixed exp reguardless of what they fight or if they fight at all (the point of that is slower level progression to keep them at the mid levels (which are more fun) for a bit longer
Yes! Too many players second-guess and question the DM's judgement {guilty look}! Players always seem to forget that there are things that are happening that they have no idea about and so they really aren't qualified to make judgement calls.caudor said:
The next game I run, I'll be hiding XP totals and will only let a player know what their approximate total is, when their character has levelled. There is too much focus on the mechanics of play, especially in 3rd ed. and players shouldn't concern themselves with things that have nothing to do with the roleplaying of their character.Piratecat said:
So, all in all, unless you think your DM is being a complete and utter bastard and is on some sort of revenge trip, then I say just let it go since it's really not what you should be concentrating on and, as a player, it isn't your call to make a judgement on it.
I actually killed three party members with a group of cloud giants a few weeks ago. There was complaining. There were accusations that I had made a killer encounter.
The party was level 13, on average. There were four cloud giants -- they were wearing chainmail, but were shorter than normal, and didn't have 15' reach. Other than that, they were right out of the book. They weren't even the magic-using cloud giants.
The party's method of engaging the cloud giants was to run in at them.
Bows? No. Elemental damage spells? No. No, they opted to smoke 'em out with Stinking Cloud (gosh, giants don't have Fort saves, do they?) when the giants were chucking rocks, and then everyone with a weapon ran in. Heck, the party sorcerer actually got into the fight when the party bard dropped the sorcerer's magical sickle.
I gave out normal XP -- although in mind it was "Double it because the encounter went so badly, and then halve it because the party acted like blithering idiots."
So while I would certainly consider "Losing all magical abilities" to be an effect that should affect the XP given from an encounter, I think it's also worth noting that we haven't heard all the sides of the story.
Examples:
There were levers on the back wall -- one of the levers re-activated magical abilities.
The room was dark and filled with shadows, and the party rogue could easily have gotten past the giant or gotten in some good sneak attacks with hit-and-run tactics.
The party had received a crystal earlier in the day from a mysterious hermit, along with a riddle -- "When is a magic missile not a magic missile? Break this crystal when you know the answer." A magic missile isn't magical when magic is suppressed. Breaking the crystal in the room would have reactivated magic in the area.
The PCs turned off the magic themselves through their earlier actions -- destroying a magical pool in the area, using an artifact that messes around with magic, etc.
I don't know that any of those situations happened. In fact, it's possible that none of them happened, and it was just the DM making things hard for the fun of it. But we're only getting one side of the story, so let's not rake the DM over the coals, shall we?
-Tacky
The party was level 13, on average. There were four cloud giants -- they were wearing chainmail, but were shorter than normal, and didn't have 15' reach. Other than that, they were right out of the book. They weren't even the magic-using cloud giants.
The party's method of engaging the cloud giants was to run in at them.
Bows? No. Elemental damage spells? No. No, they opted to smoke 'em out with Stinking Cloud (gosh, giants don't have Fort saves, do they?) when the giants were chucking rocks, and then everyone with a weapon ran in. Heck, the party sorcerer actually got into the fight when the party bard dropped the sorcerer's magical sickle.
I gave out normal XP -- although in mind it was "Double it because the encounter went so badly, and then halve it because the party acted like blithering idiots."
So while I would certainly consider "Losing all magical abilities" to be an effect that should affect the XP given from an encounter, I think it's also worth noting that we haven't heard all the sides of the story.
Examples:
There were levers on the back wall -- one of the levers re-activated magical abilities.
The room was dark and filled with shadows, and the party rogue could easily have gotten past the giant or gotten in some good sneak attacks with hit-and-run tactics.
The party had received a crystal earlier in the day from a mysterious hermit, along with a riddle -- "When is a magic missile not a magic missile? Break this crystal when you know the answer." A magic missile isn't magical when magic is suppressed. Breaking the crystal in the room would have reactivated magic in the area.
The PCs turned off the magic themselves through their earlier actions -- destroying a magical pool in the area, using an artifact that messes around with magic, etc.
I don't know that any of those situations happened. In fact, it's possible that none of them happened, and it was just the DM making things hard for the fun of it. But we're only getting one side of the story, so let's not rake the DM over the coals, shall we?
-Tacky
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