A few questions

[JordanBowridge]

I am a bit confused about a couple of things:

1) With a multi-class monk, do the BAB from the non monk classes stack for purposes of figuring out the HTH BAB? If not, this could mean a multi-class monk who has say a fighter class, that uses no weapons, just hand to hand, is better at pciking up a random sword, than using the body that he has perfected all of his life.

2) When creating a multiclass character, do they get the feat that all first level character's get when taking a new level? It would seem to be so from the PHB.

Thank you in advance for your answers.

Jordan Bowridge

 

[Crothian]

I am a bit confused about a couple of things:

1) With a multi-class monk, do the BAB from the non monk classes stack for purposes of figuring out the HTH BAB? If not, this could mean a multi-class monk who has say a fighter class, that uses no weapons, just hand to hand, is better at pciking up a random sword, than using the body that he has perfected all of his life.

Only the Monk and a select few Prestige Classes count towards the unarmed HTH. It's what happens when you stop devoting your self.

2) When creating a multiclass character, do they get the feat that all first level character's get when taking a new level? It would seem to be so from the PHB.

Thank you in advance for your answers.

Jordan Bowridge [/B]

No, they do not. That is character level which is the total of all levels you have. You get a bonus feat at character level 1, 3, 6, 9, 12, 15, and 18.

 

[AGGEMAM]

I am a bit confused about a couple of things:

1) With a multi-class monk, do the BAB from the non monk classes stack for purposes of figuring out the HTH BAB?

No, only classes that have an UBAB progression stacks

If not, this could mean a multi-class monk who has say a fighter class, that uses no weapons, just hand to hand, is better at pciking up a random sword, than using the body that he has perfected all of his life.

He stopped perfecting those skills the minute he multiclassed.

2) When creating a multiclass character, do they get the feat that all first level character's get when taking a new level?

No!

It would seem to be so from the PHB.

Where?

 

[JordanBowridge]

Re Questions

On page 56 the PHB contradicts itself:

Under feats it says it says only every 3 character levels. However under "Adding a Second Class" it states that taking the first level in a second or more classes does not get you the following benefits: Maximum hps from the first HD, Quadruple the per level skill points, Starting equipment and gold, and an animal companion for Druid only. SO if someone takes a First level of fighter, do they or don't they get the bonus fet at first level and then 2nd level?

As for a multi-class monk, what if the other class they took was Fighter, and they dedicated themselves to unarmed combat and nothing else? As they advance they took Weapon Focus: Unarmed Strike, Weapon Finesse: Unarmed Strike and Weapon Specialization: Unarmed Strike. They never pick up a sword or mace, just use their hands and feet. They never wear any armor, relying on their monk skills to keep them alive. Why shouldn't the Fighter BAB add to their UBAB? They may belong to an order that is a bit more martial then your generic single class monk order.

Jordan Bowridge

 

[AGGEMAM]

There is no contradiction!!! Don't mistake 'class levels' for 'character levels'.

It's a balance issue. It would mean that you could take 1 level of monk and then 19 level of fighter and have a UBAB of +19/+16/+13/+10/+7/+4/+1 or 7 attacks per round.

 

[Crothian]

Re: Re Questions

As for a multi-class monk, what if the other class they took was Fighter, and they dedicated themselves to unarmed combat and nothing else? As they advance they took Weapon Focus: Unarmed Strike, Weapon Finesse: Unarmed Strike and Weapon Specialization: Unarmed Strike. They never pick up a sword or mace, just use their hands and feet. They never wear any armor, relying on their monk skills to keep them alive. Why shouldn't the Fighter BAB add to their UBAB? They may belong to an order that is a bit more martial then your generic single class monk order.

Jordan Bowridge

What you describe is not a figher, it is a monk. Monks dedicate themselves to unarmed fighting, fighters dedicate themsevles to fighting wit hweapons and armor. What you rreally want is a prestige class. That is what you are describing here.

 

[Zhure]

HAH! glad I saved it this time. This has come up before a number of times.


http://www.enworld.org/messageboards/showthread.php?s=&threadid=488

OA, page 33-34
"Character who have levels of only monk classes always get more unarmed attacks than they would noramlly get based on their base attack bonus (additionaly attacks at intervals of -3, instead of -5). Characters who have levels in other classes as well may or may not gain an advantage from this, and any advantage is often slight.

"Table 3-1: Multiple Unarmed Attacks
Base Attack Bonus Additional Unarmed Attacks
+0 .... ---
+1 .... ---
+2 .... ---
+3 .... ---
+4 .... +1
+5 .... +2
+6 .... +3
+7 .... +4/+1
+8 .... +5/+2
+9 .... +6/+3
+10 ... +7/+4/+1
+11 ... +8/+5/+2
+12 ... +9/+6/+3
+13 ... +10/+7/+4/+1
+14 ... +11/+8/+5/+2
+15 ... +12/+9/+6/+3

"Example: Asako Turima is a 10th-level monk/4th-level henshin mystic. His base attack bonus is +10 (+7 from his monk levels, +3 from his henshin mystic levels). Normally, this would give him an additional attack at +5. He can instead take the additional unarmed attacks listed for his +10 attack bonus (since the entire bonus is derived from monk and mystic levels) on Table 3-1: Multiple Unarmed Attacks, +7/+4/+1. Thus, he can make four attacks in a round with an unarmed strike (or a monk weaopn), at +10, +7, +4 and +1. When using another weapon, he can make two attacks at +10 and +5. He has the unarmed damage, AC bonus and speed of a 14th-level monk.

"Togashi Tidaiko, however, is a 3rd-level samurai/5th-level monk/ 7th-level tattooed monk. Her base attack bonus is +11 (+3 from her samurai levels, +3 from her monk levels, and +5 from her tattooed monk levels). Normally she would have two additional attacks at +6 and +1. She can instead take the additional unarmed attacks listed for a +8 base attack bonus from her monk and tattooed monk levels on Table 3-1, +5 and +2. She makes three attacks in a round, whether armed or unarmed. If unarmed (or using a monk weapon), she can choose whether to strike at +11/+6/+1 or at +11/+5/+2. Armed with an ordinary weapon, she must attack at +11/+6/+1. She has the unarmed damage, AC bonus, and abase speed of a 12-th level monk."

from the PHB:
"Monk Base Attack Bonus: The monk is a special case because her additional unarmed attacks are better than her base attack bonus would suggest. For a multiclass monk fighting unarmed, the character must either use the additional attacks given for her monk levels (only) or the additional attacks that are standard for her combined base attack bonus, but not both. "

 

[Zhure]

Re: Re Questions

On page 56 the PHB contradicts itself:

Under feats it says it says only every 3 character levels. However under "Adding a Second Class" it states that taking the first level in a second or more classes does not get you the following benefits: Maximum hps from the first HD, Quadruple the per level skill points, Starting equipment and gold, and an animal companion for Druid only. SO if someone takes a First level of fighter, do they or don't they get the bonus fet at first level and then 2nd level?

The bonus feat is a class feature, not a feature of being 1st level. So a first level fighter just starting out gets 4x skill points, max HD and 2 feats, one as a bonus feat and one for being a first level character.

A character who takes a multiclass level of fighter gets the bonus feat, but not a feat for being a 1st level character.

Greg

 

[Darkness]

Heh. This has come up quite a few times in the past; many people are confused by it.

Here's how it works:

The BAB of any class does indeed stack with a monk's unarmed BAB. However, the number of attacks isn't increased at the same rate; always use the higher rate only.

edit:

Heh. Zhure beat me to it. Rock on, bro!

Originally posted by Zhure:
from the PHB:
"Monk Base Attack Bonus: The monk is a special case because her additional unarmed attacks are better than her base attack bonus would suggest. For a multiclass monk fighting unarmed, the character must either use the additional attacks given for her monk levels (only) or the additional attacks that are standard for her combined base attack bonus, but not both. "

 

[JordanBowridge]

Re Questions

Thank you everyone for the help. Just to be sure: A multiclass monk uses the combined BAB, even for determining his hits, but uses only his UBAB for determining the number of attacks?

Crothian: Some time back, someone posted a Fighter that specialized in unarmed attacks. Why could there not be one? A monk is a hand to hand specialist, but from the description in the PHB, he uses his mastery of himself as a weapon to obtain physical perfection and thus become "one with the universe" This is why the ultimate monk ability makes him an outsider. A fighter that specializes in unarmed combat is just that. Someone who knows how to get in and do the most damage to his opponent. He wouldn't necessarily want to obtain physical perfection and become "one with the universe", he just happens to be really good at kicking butt with his hands and feet.

Jordan Bowridge