D&D (2024) Are single class martials still going to be viable in 2024?

[ECMO3]

Setting aside that your strategy goes against narrative logic and would apparently allow a high level fighter to draw and stow 8-10 times in one turn if they action surge, which is ludicrous, it also clearly goes against the intent of what is happening with cleave.

I think they can draw or stow 8-10 weapons in one turn. Every time they make an attack with it as part of their attack action they can draw or stow one in my understanding of the new rule. Cleave is an attack.

There are many threads online talking about how you can use dual wielding with nick and get 4 attacks in a turn while still wielding a shield. You need to switch weapons multiple times to make that happen.

So let's go to first level and show some examples.

A 1st level fighter using a single greatsword can't Draw-Attack-Stow because he is only making one attack and can only do one of those. So if he is empty handed at the start of his turn it is:

Draw greatsword -attack and he ends the attack action with sword in hand (and RAW can't even drop it). IF he started with it in hand he could stow it after the attack and end empty handed.

If same fighter is wielding a greataxe AND there is no other creature within 5 feet of the first and with his reach it is the same:

Draw Greatsword-Attack end the turn with it in hand

However if there is another creature within reach and within 5 feet it is now two attacks so he could

Draw-Attack-Attack(Cleave)-stow

At 5th level this fighter gets extra attack which puts another draw/stow in there so he could:

Draw-Attack ...... Attack(Cleave)-stow ..... draw-extra attack dagger .... draw-nick attack scimitar. If this character has Dual Wielding he could also get another attack with either the scimitar or the dagger as a bonus action.

Note besed on what I read, I do not believe you can draw or stow when you make an attack as part of somethign other than your action. So on bonus action attacks and reactions the weapon must already be in hand.

I am not sure if you get one free interaction in addition to all these draws and stows that come with attacks.

I don't have a copy of the PHB but that is my understanding.

 

[ECMO3]

So Cleave does not get a draw/stow, nor does any bonus action attack.

Only Nick gets one since it's "part of the attack action". But RAI, it needs to be made with a different hand.

My understanding is it is per attack, not per attack action, so both Nick and Cleave get another draw or stow as they are another attack.

I don't have a copy of the actual PHB, but this is my understanding of it.

 

[Clint_L]

I think they can draw or stow 8-10 weapons in one turn. Every time they make an attack with it as part of their attack action they can draw or stow one in my understanding of the new rule. Cleave is an attack.

There are many threads online talking about how you can use dual wielding with nick and get 4 attacks in a turn while still wielding a shield. You need to switch weapons multiple times to make that happen.

So let's go to first level and show some examples.

A 1st level fighter using a single greatsword can't Draw-Attack-Stow because he is only making one attack and can only do one of those. So if he is empty handed at the start of his turn it is:

Draw greatsword -attack and he ends the attack action with sword in hand (and RAW can't even drop it). IF he started with it in hand he could stow it after the attack and end empty handed.

If same fighter is wielding a greataxe AND there is no other creature within 5 feet of the first and with his reach it is the same:

Draw Greatsword-Attack end the turn with it in hand

However if there is another creature within reach and within 5 feet it is now two attacks so he could

Draw-Attack-Attack(Cleave)-stow

At 5th level this fighter gets extra attack which puts another draw/stow in there so he could:

Draw-Attack ...... Attack(Cleave)-stow ..... draw-extra attack dagger .... draw-nick attack scimitar. If this character has Dual Wielding he could also get another attack with either the scimitar or the dagger as a bonus action.

Note besed on what I read, I do not believe you can draw or stow when you make an attack as part of somethign other than your action. So on bonus action attacks and reactions the weapon must already be in hand.

I am not sure if you get one free interaction in addition to all these draws and stows that come with attacks.

I don't have a copy of the PHB but that is my understanding.

Yeah, I'm if that's RAW I'm just vetoing it in my games. That's way too nonsensical and game-ish for my tastes.

But I'm not sure it's RAW, and if it is it'll probably be corrected as errata so that you get one draw or stow per attack action. It definitely doesn't seem like RAI. It doesn't make any sense.

 

[WanderingMystic]

Yeah, I'm if that's RAW I'm just vetoing it in my games. That's way too nonsensical and game-ish for my tastes.

But I'm not sure it's RAW, and if it is it'll probably be corrected as errata so that you get one draw or stow per attack action. It definitely doesn't seem like RAI. It doesn't make any sense.

So the idea was that you could swap weapons between attacks, or not need to worry about throwing weapons since you can always freely draw a new one. Unfortunately the wording allows people to try to argue that you can do some of the aforementioned abuses.

The idea that a martial might want to start their attack off with a maul to knock someone prone them maybe switch to a sword and board so that they can defend themselves during others turns in my opinion is fine and rules as intended.

 

[deadman1204]

its amazing how when they "revised" the game to make 5.5, the rules somehow go even worse

 

[Quartz]

Not for anything else that will seriously impact DPS

True, but you can use 5E Action Surge for extra movement - it's the Fighter's escape power - or to rescue a friend who's falling to their death - "I'll Action Surge and try to grab them." - or so much more. We had a whole thread some years ago about how bad the higher-level Fighter was at fighting unless you used Action Surge for an extra Attack Action and people just couldn't get their head around using Action Surge any other way.

 

[mellored]

My understanding is it is per attack, not per attack action, so both Nick and Cleave get another draw or stow as they are another attack.

I don't have a copy of the actual PHB, but this is my understanding of it.

Just confirmed, swapping is under the attack action.

Also, dropping a weapon is part of stowing it. So you can't do that for free.

 

[ECMO3]

Just confirmed, swapping is under the attack action.

Also, dropping a weapon is part of stowing it. So you can't do that for free.

I understand dropping is stowing, and I also understand it is under the attack action and did a poor job wording that, but it is every attack you make as part of the attack action, not just once per attack action. So 5th level - extra attack - 2 attacks 2 draw/stow, 11th level fighter 3 attacks, 3 draw/stow.

Since both Cleave and Nick are part of the attack action they would be attacks too that are under the attack action. Light without Nick on the other hand is a bonus action and would not allow it.

 

[mellored]

Since both Cleave and Nick are part of the attack action they would be attacks too that are under the attack action. Light without Nick on the other hand is a bonus action and would not allow it.

Nick is specifically as part of the attack action.

Don't think cleave is, since it works on OAs

 

[ECMO3]

Nick is specifically as part of the attack action.

Don't think cleave is, since it works on OAs

Yeah you certainly could not use it with AOs or PAM attacks.