D&D (2024) Are single class martials still going to be viable in 2024?

[FrogReaver]

Did you add any damage from initiative?

Assuming 4 rounds and going first will give you an extra round half the time..
4.5 / 4 = 16.6% extra damage.
/ 20 = 0.56% more damage per Dex.

So advantage on Initiative will be 2.5% more damage.

I personally wouldn’t count initiative as DPR.

 

[Kinematics]

Updated spreadsheet here

Since the last edit I added in my earlier post:

• Added Sentinel and PAM reaction attacks.
• Added GWM bonus action attacks.
• Fixed GWM proficiency bonus damage. Should not apply to reaction attacks or bonus action attacks.
• Added percentage scaling for GWM bonus action attacks on kills. Default is 0%.
• Added percentage scaling for gaining advantage from an ally. Default is 0%.

I need to get around to working on the other fighter subclasses still, and then think about what other jobs to work on.

 

[ECMO3]

Vengeance Paladin 3

[Hunters mark = Hex.] Strength Stat is 17 (same attacking stats).

No not the same damage. The multiclass does +6 damage with a hit (2xCharisma), the Single class does +3 damage (strength only).

HM is not the equal of Hex in the new rules, but regardless this character is not using Hex (later he will when he has a free casting of it).

The multiclass also has much, much better ranged attacks, using a heavy crossbow for 1d10+2xCharisma

You have a few extra 1st level slots per short rest (but I have a free Divine Smite slot, and an extra 1st level spell slot, so that's a wash). I have a Fighting style and better Lay on Hands.

I have 3 more damage on every hit too.

Vengeance paladin is also attacking at Advantage (unlike the Warlock), with zero action economy drastically increasing DPR.

Once a short rest after burning a bonus action.

That makes up a good bit, I don't think it makes up for 3 more damage on every hit plus two more spell slots for smite.

The 'Lock could also (Darkness + Devils sight) for advantage, but that's an entire round to set up, and it screws with other party members, and you cant be concentrating on Hex at the same time (dropping DPR)

More than likely he does not have Devil's Sight. He likely has Agonizing Blast, Pact of the Blade and Pact of the Chain. Pact of the Blade is doing very little for him right now, but he wants it for 7th level (Paladin 5/Warlock 2) when he gets extra attack on the Paladin.

If it is a game that is going to end before level 7 then Devil's Sight is one option.

Advantage mono-Paladin.

But less damage, both at ranged and at melee at this level.

You gained a free divine smite, and advantage to hit (oath of enmity).

The mono Paladin already has the above, and now just also gained GWM (+3 to damage, bonus action cleave attack) and his Str is now 18 (for an extra +1 to hit, and damage).

Advantage mono-Paladin.

So now with GWM you can finally get to where you are doing slightly more damage on a normal hit in melee than the multiclass. You are doing +7 on a hit with GWM (assuming an 18 strength), the multiclass is doing +6 using the same weapon.

You also still have fewer spell slots per day for smiting and I am still blowing you away with a heavy crossbow at range, getting +6 damage to that too (and will be +8 at Paladin 4)

The Warlock 1/ Paladin 4 can only look on and cry.

It would be a Warlock 2/Paladin 3 and I think it will be pretty darn close in play, even after you just got the biggest single level boost in the game for the single class.

..... oh and while my familiar is not as cool as your new one (yet), I have had a familiar since level 2 (Paladin 1/Warlock 1).

 

[ECMO3]

It's 1 draw or stow with the attack action. Martial arts, opportunity attacks, polearm master, etc... doesn't give you any extra swaps.

I believe it is one draw or one stow with each attack taken on the attack action. So you can Greataxe attack (draw), Cleave (stow). IF you don't get cleave you can not both draw and stow on the same turn, but you just change up the order as you noted.

Also if the object interaction is still there, that is one more in addition to every attack.

 

[Quartz]

Updated spreadsheet here

I haven't seen 5.24 yet but do remember that Action Surge in 5E can be used for far more than an extra Attack action.

 

[Chaltab]

I haven't seen 5.24 yet but do remember that Action Surge in 5E can be used for far more than an extra Attack action.

Not for anything else that will seriously impact DPS

 

[Clint_L]

I believe it is one draw or one stow with each attack taken on the attack action. So you can Greataxe attack (draw), Cleave (stow). IF you don't get cleave you can not both draw and stow on the same turn, but you just change up the order as you noted.

Also if the object interaction is still there, that is one more in addition to every attack.

Here's the wording of cleave from the UA:

If you hit a creature with a melee attack using this weapon, you can make an attack roll with the weapon against a second creature within 5 feet of the first that is also within your reach. On a hit, the second creature takes the weapon’s damage, but don’t add your ability modifier to that damage, unless that modifier is negative. You can make this extra attack only once per turn.

Setting aside that your strategy goes against narrative logic and would apparently allow a high level fighter to draw and stow 8-10 times in one turn if they action surge, which is ludicrous, it also clearly goes against the intent of what is happening with cleave.

 

[mellored]

Here's the wording of cleave from the UA:

Setting aside that your strategy goes against narrative logic and would apparently allow a high level fighter to draw and stow 8-10 times in one turn if they action surge, which is ludicrous, it also clearly goes against the intent of what is happening with cleave.

So Cleave does not get a draw/stow, nor does any bonus action attack.

Only Nick gets one since it's "part of the attack action". But RAI, it needs to be made with a different hand.

And it's draw OR stow, and it must be that weapon. Meaning you have to use the same Mastery twice in a row.

So a high level fighter, assuming no weapons are drawn at the start of combat, can do...

Draw, Topple, topple, stow
Draw, push, push, stow
+Action surge
Draw, cleave, cleave (only once), stow
Draw, Vex, Vex, light weapon attack from hand 1
Draw, Nick
Bonus action dual wielder Vex

And you end the turn dual wielding.

 

[Clint_L]

So Cleave does not get a draw/stow, nor does any bonus action attack.

Only Nick gets one since it's "part of the attack action". But RAI, it needs to be made with a different hand.

And it's draw OR stow, and it must be that weapon. Meaning you have to use the same Mastery twice in a row.

So a high level fighter, assuming no weapons are drawn at the start of combat, can do...

Draw, Topple, topple, stow
Draw, push, push, stow
+Action surge
Draw, cleave, cleave (only once), stow
Draw, Vex, Vex, light weapon attack from hand 1
Draw, Nick
Bonus action dual wielder Vex

And you end the turn dual wielding.

If that’s RAW then I want to just ban weapon mastery. That’s hideous.

 

[mellored]

If that’s RAW then I want to just ban weapon mastery. That’s hideous.

I don't have the book, so I could be wrong, but what part is hideous? The number of attacks a high level fighter gets?

For the majority of the players, with 2 masteries, very likely 1 melee and 1 ranged.

And with 2 attacks they will be able to swap once.