D&D General A glimpse at WoTC's current view of Rule 0

[Oofta]

So perhaps such wildly different imaginations could sometimes happen, and if so the GM can step in and correct the player's assumptions, but in my experience this is exceedingly rare. However, if this is a common occurrence then I would consider it a GMing mistake, and the GM should improve on how they disseminate the information.

If I described enough of a scene that you knew there was a halfling behind the bar, I'd likely give at least a brief description of the patrons and how crowded the place was. If I only described a halfling behind the bar? In most cases that would mean the bar is completely empty and there would be a reason.

 

[Oofta]

And that's totally fair. But even for D&D, I'm pretty much the exact opposite. Any player narrating something happening snaps me into the world far more than a description of the surroundings by the DM.

I think it's events that make me feel immersed, far more than the environmental details. The times I've been most immersed are all situations where I've been deep into discussion or arguments with fellow players, with us acting out our characters, OR conflict-filled quickly moving scenarios.

Different strokes for different folks. Just like I don't give a hoot if someone asks if they can make an insight check and other people seem to think that it's wrong to not just describe staring deep into an NPCs eyes to determine their intent or something. We all have different preferences.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

If I described enough of a scene that you knew there was a halfling behind the bar, I'd likely give at least a brief description of the patrons and how crowded the place was. If I only described a halfling behind the bar? In most cases that would mean the bar is completely empty and there would be a reason.

Yes indeed, though if I intended the bar to be completely empty I would probably explicitly say so as that is mildly unusual.

 

[TwoSix]

So perhaps such wildly different imaginations could sometimes happen, and if so the GM can step in and correct the player's assumptions, but in my experience this is exceedingly rare. However, if this is a common occurrence then I would consider it a GMing mistake, and the GM should improve on how they disseminate the information.

I definitely think if the DM has envisioned the bar as a murder scene, and the players aren't immediately picking up on that, then the DM needs to step up their game.

 

[Oofta]

I definitely think if the DM has envisioned the bar as a murder scene, and the players aren't immediately picking up on that, then the DM needs to step up their game.

If it's the middle of the day and you're walking into a dim bar? It can take a few seconds before your eyes adjust and I have a chance to declare "Roll for initiative."

 

[Crimson Longinus]

Those questions at the end of your post is how I'd want it to go, yes. Your preference and mine are different, not better or worse.

I think it is perfectly fine for players to make such basic assumptions and infer things from the context, even if they were not explicitly stated. In a rare occasion where they make a wrong assumption the GM can correct them, and I think this far less frequent interruption and far less jarring than the players constantly stopping to verify every minute detail.

 

[Oofta]

I think it is perfectly fine for players to make such basic assumptions and infer things from the context, even if they were not explicitly stated. In a rare occasion where they make a wrong assumption the GM can correct them, and I think this far less frequent interruption and far less jarring than the players constantly stopping to verify every minute detail.

It's always going to be a matter of degree of course. In our last game we were trying to get into the back of a circus where normally employees only go. So I stated that I pick up something like a barrel or crate before we got there so we would look like we were making a delivery, the DM narrated I picked up an empty rain barrel. But I would also have been perfectly fine with my character (he's pretty clueless about how the world works) getting into trouble for theft by picking up the wrong thing.

 

[TwoSix]

If it's the middle of the day and you're walking into a dim bar? It can take a few seconds before your eyes adjust and I have a chance to declare "Roll for initiative."

But that wasn't the scenario. The scenario was that the DM says "You arrive at a dusty bar, the light is dim and you have trouble making out if anyone is present in the dim light." (Secretly, the bar has already been determined to be a murder scene.) And the next sentence is the player saying "My drunken barbarian walks up to a bar patron and knocks off his hat, looking for a fight."

That's a combination of the player overextending his narration and the DM not taking control of his scene framing.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Would you characterize the DM as having world-bending power?

I don’t think you would, since « world-bending power » suggests a pre-existing world to bend.

If certain elements of the world aren’t established: who is in the bar? Are they wearing a hat? then it isn’t world-bending to establish details, it’s creative input.

It’s basically begging the question. If your starting point is that the DM has exclusive right to establish everything in the world, then anything a player creates, even if nothing has been established, is « world-bending ».

But you don’t have to start with the premise that the DM has the exclusive right to establish everything in the world.

Of course you don't have to. But I prefer it.

And as I noted, if it makes sense to me, isn't a big deal, and doesn't interfere with anything, I likely would let stuff like the bar thing go. But that doesn't change what it is from my perspective.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I think it is perfectly fine for players to make such basic assumptions and infer things from the context, even if they were not explicitly stated. In a rare occasion where they make a wrong assumption the GM can correct them, and I think this far less frequent interruption and far less jarring than the players constantly stopping to verify every minute detail.

Sure, if that works better for the situation and/or you and your players. These are principles of preference, not commandments that must always be strictly followed.