A kinder, gentler matriarchy?

[Kahuna Burger]

So a gender related thread on the main board got me thinking about one of my old nits to pick - the representation of 'matriarchies' in popular fiction.

When I think about examples in sci fi (star trek episodes, another old series I have vestigal memories of, etc) of female dominated cultures, they are portrayed as truely dominated by the women. The ST:NG episode I have in mind basically had a fascist state which was going to EXECUTE a group of local woman and off world men who wanted equality for males. Other fantasy and scifi matriarchies seem to be the same.

Now I'm going to risk flames and assert as fact that most of us live in what could be called a "benign patriarchy." There is little legally enforced division of rights, and women are represented at almost all levels. But certain gender roles are still assumed, you can safely guess if you're meeting the CEO of a company they will be male, the press makes a big deal out of a high level post being persued by a woman, etc. This is also the situation in much science fiction. Women are represented at all levels, but parity is not there. There will be more men on a starship than women, you will not see a female researcher at a lonely outpost accompanied by her supportive but less competent husband, etc. (I'm NOT going to have a discussion about whether this is "realistic" or not, I don't care for the sake of this discussion.)

So the question is, have any sci fi writers (and esp those in the TV medium) presented a "benign matriarchy"? Please don't say that we wouldn't notice if they did - if the Enterprise met with another vessel and there were only two men on its bridge (one of whom was not in uniform but served as an advisor) and both the captain and first officer were women, we would notice. I can think of a couple of possible examples in books, but I'm drawing a blank on tv or movies. (I think there was a out of show reference to one of the less important B5 races being matriarchal, but I never saw it represented in the show...)

Thoughts?

Kahuna burger

 

[Viking Bastard]

There was one on DS9 once, but I can't remember the details.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

The Betazoids seemed to have a matriarchy, I think.
Maybe it is only because Lwaxana (Deanna Trois Mother) had so many ranks and titles (holder of the chalice of I don`t know what), but I think it is a plausible assumption.

I believe I remember the race Viking Bastards speak of, but it was a kind of matrichary that resembled more Kahunas "truely dominated" ones.

Mustrum Ridcully

 

[Kahuna Burger]

The Betazoids seemed to have a matriarchy, I think.
Maybe it is only because Lwaxana (Deanna Trois Mother) had so many ranks and titles (holder of the chalice of I don`t know what), but I think it is a plausible assumption.

I don't think I ever saw enough betazoids at a time (or even over the course of the series) to get a feel for that one way or another. Lwaxana was definitly a 'family matriarch' but I got the impression deanna's father was deceased, and england had ruling queens without changing the overall social makeup of the society. If I had access to tapes, I'd rewatch some of the episodes which focused on betazoids... Aside from nude weddings, I never got any feel for their culture as a whole.

Kahuna burger

 

[Mark]

...perhaps we could discuss if this is one of the reasons folks have a problem with Voyager and judge it more harshly than other ST series...?



"Do it!" - Katherine Janeway

 

[Umbran]

Now I'm going to risk flames and assert as fact that most of us live in what could be called a "benign patriarchy." There is little legally enforced division of rights, and women are represented at almost all levels.

Might I suggest that "eroded patriarchy" is a touch more accurate. Many would argue that many of the patriarchs are not yet particuarly begnign. What we have is what you get when folks chip away at a less begnign patriarchy - one with far more legal and social division of rights, and little female respresentation at all - to get a more equitable structure.

So the question is, have any sci fi writers (and esp those in the TV medium) presented a "benign matriarchy"?

I haven't read either of these myself:

Robert Jordan, in the Wheel of Time series, has a kingdom called "Andor" that probably fits the bill.

Mercedes Lackey in Arrows of the Queen and the series that follows, might also fit what you're looking for.

Thoughts?

You probably don't see such structure because the differences with realits are not quite blatant enough. Sci-fi and Fantasy tend to work with strong, bold statements and overemphasized and simplified traits. The thing you're asking about is far more subtle, and in order to use it properly to make points or social commentary would take a lot more verbiage.

 

[Kahuna Burger]

Re: Re: A kinder, gentler matriarchy?

You probably don't see such structure because the differences with realits are not quite blatant enough. Sci-fi and Fantasy tend to work with strong, bold statements and overemphasized and simplified traits. The thing you're asking about is far more subtle, and in order to use it properly to make points or social commentary would take a lot more verbiage.

Unfortunately, I think this begs the question. Less excessive matriarchies don't make a strong political point, but does every difference from western earth culture have to be there to make a political point?

I think a quiet matriarchy would be easy enough to have - to the point that its possible I've missed one in a show I didn't watch religiously. Just take your planned cast list for a well featured race (as well featured as the klingons or romulans, or any of the prime B5 races) and switch the gender on every character. You would notice on every single one of the races I've mentioned.

it wouldn't make any political point... except perhaps a subtle one that you can think outside the box of human culture for fun and creativity rather than to play off ideas of violent amazons...

Kahuna burger

 

[Dinkeldog]

Hmmm...if anyone injects blatant political comment, I think I'll be upset with them, but we're on an even keel right now.

Now for the topic. I'm not sure Andor counts, since the whole country doesn't have females leading as a heirarchy throughout society. It's more like a relic from a past political event. Other noble houses pass power through the father, though, don't they?

Similarly Mercedes Lackey's Valdemar books don't really say there can't be a king, do they? It's really more that the opportunity hadn't arisen.

I think the problem with Voyager really was that the individual show plots stunk, the over-arching plots stunk, and although a few of the characters were likable, they never really let the crew bond.

 

[Umbran]

Re: Re: Re: A kinder, gentler matriarchy?

Unfortunately, I think this begs the question. Less excessive matriarchies don't make a strong political point, but does every difference from western earth culture have to be there to make a political point?

Do they have to? No. But is that the tendency? Yes.

There's a basic maxim of fiction, more visible today in movies and TV, but also present in written forms - if it isn't there for a purpose, leave it out. You only have so many minutes of screen time, only so many words, you've got to make them count. If you aren't planning to do something specific with it, a major change from audience expectation is merely excess verbiage that serves to confuse the audience. Any time you deviate from audience expectation, the audience will ask why. If you don't have a good answer, you are distracting them from the real meat of your story.

I think a quiet matriarchy would be easy enough to have

Yes, it's easy. I don't dispute that. But doing the easy thing doesn't exactly stretch your creativity, now does it?

it wouldn't make any political point... except perhaps a subtle one that you can think outside the box of human culture for fun and creativity rather than to play off ideas of violent amazons...

Well I dunno if it is really "outside the box". It is just another variation on the "switch the sex roles" ploy. Not exactly new.

In addition, putting in a story element for the mere purpose of saying "this author can think outside the box" is... well, it strikes me as bad form. Is the author of fiction there to tell you about his or her own mental greatness, or is he there to tell you a story?

In addition, TV and movie folks have to worry about seeming "gratuitous" - doing things merely to seem open minded, to pander to the audience, or to garner ratings. The DS9 same-sex kiss makes a good example. Even though it happened to be an expression of emotions relevant to the story, lots of folks came down on them for needlessly putting in a controversial scene.

 

[Mark]

I think the problem with Voyager really was that the individual show plots stunk, the over-arching plots stunk, and although a few of the characters were likable, they never really let the crew bond.

I think the main problem with Voyager was the fact that a number of seasons ran parallel with DS9, and Voy was merely getting off the ground while it was in direct comparison with later season of DS9. Most people didn't give it much of a chance.

Between Janeway and Torres, there were two of the strongest female ST characters ever written. People first and women second, which I think put a lot of people off who tuned in initially to watch a powerhouse ship blast its way back home from the edge of the universe (basically how the show was first billed). Couple that with rather weak male characters, by comparison, and I can see how many regular ST fans would turn away.

It would be interesting to do a plot-for-plot comparison with the other three series and see which of the four had the most stinkers, the overall weakest cast, and the most rehashes (and, yes, TOS was fairly blatant in stealing from classics and even itself). I may have to start a thread and do just that one of these dog-summer days down the road.