A Merc's Life [OOC 02]

[Scotley]

I'm going to respectfully disagree with your assessment of the crafting rules. Note that I have not studied the Pathfinder rules, but assuming they bare some resemblance to the 3.5 rules you are ignoring a big part of the cost.

First, there are specific spells required which may not be particularly useful outside of crafting, which seriously limits its effective use by classes with limited slots like Sorcerers and Bards.

Second, the time requirement, which as you say is often hand waved.

Third, XP cost. So while you may have more wealth effectively than the rules for your level, if you get serious about crafting you'll also be lower level. That's a bid cost.

Finally, you have to invest feats. To really do a lot of crafting you'll need more than one so you can make say Armor, Weapons and rings. Wizards can get them as bonus feats, but at the expense of meta-magic feats. For most other classes this is a huge cost. Clerics and Druids, who are the most likely crafters after Wizards will have to give up some really cool wildshape and turning feats or combat bonuses to get the crafting feats. I've never played a cleric without wanting for more feats.

Now as a wizard, I can't really wear armor and most characters only use one weapon most of the time. So if I invest in those two feats and make myself two rings a missile weapon and a melee weapon am I really all that much more badass than a wizard who takes a couple of metamagic feats and is a level higher than me, has maybe a third less total equipment than me and who had more freedom to select his spells and greater downtime to invest in solo adventures, building contacts, researching spells or otherwise having fun?

Like any system in this game if you are bound and determined to milk it for all its worth and abuse it you can probably eke out a small advantage from crafting. But I don't think it is the game breaker you make it out to be.

 

[Scott DeWar]

Pathfinder eliminated the xp cost (point 3)

for example: from the pf rpg ogl srd (plain text version)
Ring of Chameleon Power
Aura faint illusion; CL 3rd
Slot ring; Price 12,700 gp; Weight —
Description
As a free action, the wearer of this ring can gain the ability to
magically blend in with the surroundings. This provides a
+10 competence bonus on her Stealth checks. As a standard
action, she can also use the spell disguise self as often as she
wants.
Construction Requirements
Forge Ring, disguise self, invisibility; Cost
6,350 gp

a feat with a pre requ. of caster level 7
a first level spell and a second level spell
and gold in this case = to 1/2 the 'fair market value'

 

[renau1g]

Gotcha covered Scotley

 

[Maidhc O Casain]

[MENTION=11520]Scotley[/MENTION] (Sorry for the delay - I need to get this worked out before proceeding, and Scotley may want to change Keeland's action based on the result.)

In re-reading the Confused condition, it seems I was playing it wrong during the last fight. It looks to me as though even if the Peryton is confused it's still going to attack - probably Houwlou since he'd have hit it last. The main effect would be that it would focus all of its attacks on the wolfkin rather than splitting them as I've had it doing.

Could you read the text of the condition (I've got it pasted below) and give me your take? I've put the text that gives me this interpretation in bold.

Confused
A confused creature is mentally befuddled and cannot act normally. A confused creature cannot tell the difference between ally and foe, treating all creatures as enemies. Allies wishing to cast a beneficial spell that requires a touch on a confused creature must succeed on a melee touch attack. If a confused creature is attacked, it attacks the creature that last attacked it until that creature is dead or out of sight.

Roll on the following table at the beginning of each confused subject's turn each round to see what the subject does in that round.

d% 	Behavior
01–25 	Act normally.
26–50 	Do nothing but babble incoherently.
51–75 	Deal 1d8 points of damage + Str modifier to self with item in hand.
76–100 	Attack nearest creature (for this purpose, a familiar counts as part of the subject's self).

A confused creature who can't carry out the indicated action does nothing but babble incoherently. Attackers are not at any special advantage when attacking a confused creature. Any confused creature who is attacked automatically attacks its attackers on its next turn, as long as it is still confused when its turn comes. Note that a confused creature will not make attacks of opportunity against anything that it is not already devoted to attacking (either because of its most recent action or because it has just been attacked).

 

[Scott DeWar]

was that before the condition started or after? I would figure it will fall into the catagory of atticking last attacker if that happens while it is confused as the result of the spell compelling it to do.

but that is just me.

 

[Maidhc O Casain]

Right, but Keeland actually acts first (among the PCs) in the round. So Peryton attacks (done). Keeland fires off his spell, then the rest of you attack. Houwlou will be the last to attack the Peryton before its next action, so the way I read the spell it would then focus all of its attacks on Houwlou. This might actually be a desirable outcome, as it would draw the attacks to a higher AC character with more HP.

Just wanted to make sure I have the spell effect right and that this is what Scotley's expecting before I wrap the round.

 

[mleibrock]

Confusing indeed

The wording of this spell is very confusing. So is what you are saying is being attacked takes precedence over anything else. If he is attacked, he would not even roll to see if there is another effect? I realize we need to clarify and move forward but I do not think this I what occured when we fought that were-beast. Is it?

 

[Maidhc O Casain]

It's not what I did in the fight with the were-leopard, which I recognized (and acknowledged) in the original question.

And you're right - the wording is confusing because even though it reads like the attacking an attacker takes precedence (it does say 'automatically') it doesn't specify this in the description of the rolling to determine actions.

 

[Scotley]

So basically if we read the spell that a confused creature will attack his/her attacker, then all the spell does in combat is make the creature attack regardless of its preference. That means the spell is only really useful when you want to avoid combat and it gives you like a 50/50 chance to do so per round. Not really a particularly functional spell.

Interpreting it as if the language about attacks only applies after you make the roll for effect each round puts it on par with spells like blur and displacement that give a mischance only the creature gets a save, hence the lower level. To my way of thinking that makes more sense. Of course, as the player in this situation I might be biased.

I'll hit the Paizo forums and see if I can find anything.

 

[Maidhc O Casain]

Thanks, Scott; for some reason I have the hardest time finding anything I want on their boards.

The additional functionality (besides avoiding combat) would be determining which party member the foe will attack by holding actions to change the initiative order. A very cool idea for the tactically minded group, but of limited use in most situations (this one being one of the exceptions - pardon me for putting Houwlou 'on the block' Leif ).