A Merc's Life [OOC 02]
- Thread starter Maidhc O Casain
- Start date
Maidhc O Casain
Na Bith Mo Riocht Tá!
You can't really craft items 'in the field' - meaning during an active dungeon delve, etc. So using this game as an example, even if you took time off from the siege of Kelmarane it's unlikely that Almah would have the raw materials needed to make anything of real value.
In PbP the time between adventures is typically hand-waved, so the time factor becomes pretty much moot. It's just as easy to say 'two weeks pass' as it is to say 'two days pass.'
In PbP the time between adventures is typically hand-waved, so the time factor becomes pretty much moot. It's just as easy to say 'two weeks pass' as it is to say 'two days pass.'
mleibrock
First Post
I agree with these points, Mike. Maybe you could require those wanting to create items to state that before the extended breaks? And in those cases give some financial discount. The other party members would be able to "work" or rest and it really seems that those characters ambitious enough to make their own items should be able to do so at some sort of a discount.
Maidhc O Casain
Na Bith Mo Riocht Tá!
That brings us back to the 'character wealth by level' thing.
Encounters are assigned their challenge ratings - estimates of how well a party of a given level and size will fare against a particular encounter. But one of the assumptions that's made is that parties will have only a certain amount of 'wealth' in the form of equipment (magic items, in particular).
This is where the crafting rules are broken. Allowing players to craft their own items - to any great extent, anyway - at a discount meant that those characters have more than the assumed magic items for their level (roughly twice as much if the crafter is really ambitious).
There's a good reason 'official' games like Pathfinder Society dis-allow the crafting rules entirely: you can't keep the game balanced.
Making the crafting cost equal to the buying cost doesn't make sense from a 'realism' perspective, but it does from a game balance perspective. The compensation here, rather than the monetary discount, will be the fact that the crafter will be able to make whatever item he wants and can afford rather than having to settle for what's available in the stall and shops in town, or having to wait to find the item he wants in a dungeon. I don't really like that either (see my mini-rant below
) but it's better than allowing the crafting at a discount.
(Mini-Rant: This brings up for me the fact that allowing crafting for PCs at all tends to completely devalue the cool stuff one finds while adventuring, and thus removes one of the staples of fantasy roleplaying. Why would Bilbo and Frodo ever have settled for Sting, if they could have just custom ordered something 10 times better from their friends the dwarves, the elves, or Gandalf? And then where would the story have been, without that cool sword that helps tie the whole thing together?
Once you allow crafting of magic items, and once the players get to the level they can make them, you might as well stop putting anything cool into the dungeons in the way of treasure and just put in piles of gold, 'cause for the most part all the players will want to do is sell what they find so they can make something tailored to their exact specifications.
Well, maybe not quite that extreme, but it makes my point.)
Encounters are assigned their challenge ratings - estimates of how well a party of a given level and size will fare against a particular encounter. But one of the assumptions that's made is that parties will have only a certain amount of 'wealth' in the form of equipment (magic items, in particular).
This is where the crafting rules are broken. Allowing players to craft their own items - to any great extent, anyway - at a discount meant that those characters have more than the assumed magic items for their level (roughly twice as much if the crafter is really ambitious).
There's a good reason 'official' games like Pathfinder Society dis-allow the crafting rules entirely: you can't keep the game balanced.
Making the crafting cost equal to the buying cost doesn't make sense from a 'realism' perspective, but it does from a game balance perspective. The compensation here, rather than the monetary discount, will be the fact that the crafter will be able to make whatever item he wants and can afford rather than having to settle for what's available in the stall and shops in town, or having to wait to find the item he wants in a dungeon. I don't really like that either (see my mini-rant below
) but it's better than allowing the crafting at a discount.(Mini-Rant: This brings up for me the fact that allowing crafting for PCs at all tends to completely devalue the cool stuff one finds while adventuring, and thus removes one of the staples of fantasy roleplaying. Why would Bilbo and Frodo ever have settled for Sting, if they could have just custom ordered something 10 times better from their friends the dwarves, the elves, or Gandalf? And then where would the story have been, without that cool sword that helps tie the whole thing together?
Once you allow crafting of magic items, and once the players get to the level they can make them, you might as well stop putting anything cool into the dungeons in the way of treasure and just put in piles of gold, 'cause for the most part all the players will want to do is sell what they find so they can make something tailored to their exact specifications.
Well, maybe not quite that extreme, but it makes my point.)
mleibrock
First Post
I feel like I'm playing Devil's advocate here and that is surely not my intent, Mike. As I said earlier, it is your game so it is completely up to you and those magic user characters to decide how you want to handle it.
However, I do feel it might be a bit easier to just stick to what is written. Pazio is pretty good about staying on top of things. I think if there are too many house rules, it's not really pathfinder at all.
I think creating magic items is a very powerful ability and it is ultimately up to the GM to limit it. Who says the creator can always find the raw materials easily. Heck, at all for that matter?
However, I do feel it might be a bit easier to just stick to what is written. Pazio is pretty good about staying on top of things. I think if there are too many house rules, it's not really pathfinder at all.
I think creating magic items is a very powerful ability and it is ultimately up to the GM to limit it. Who says the creator can always find the raw materials easily. Heck, at all for that matter?
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Maidhc O Casain
Na Bith Mo Riocht Tá!
Advocate away! I like a good debate . . . er . . . argument . . . umh . . . discussion! 
Looks like DeWar is fine with making the crafting of objects cost the same as buying them, and leaving the rest 'as-is.' This suits me as well, so for now at least that's what we'll do.
Looks like DeWar is fine with making the crafting of objects cost the same as buying them, and leaving the rest 'as-is.' This suits me as well, so for now at least that's what we'll do.
Scott DeWar
Prof. Emeritus-Supernatural Events/Countermeasure
I wish otherwise, but in the intrest of keeping the game balenced, I will concede to the cost of create=cost of buy.
off topic: were you aboe to be in my homebrew game i have starting Mowgli?
off topic: were you aboe to be in my homebrew game i have starting Mowgli?
Leif
Adventurer
You're not that good, Ryan. Sorry to burst your bubble.
Scotley
Hero
You're not that good, Ryan. Sorry to burst your bubble.
Drat, can't give you XP for this one yet.
