TSR A New Taxonomy for TSR-Era D&D

[Stormonu]

I gave you a "like" because the rest of your comment is awesome, and also because I know your thread to play with UA sitting at your table is an empty one.

Because all the pages fell out ...

So true, sadly (for my friends - had three whose books fell to pieces). Strangely, the pages in mine never did fall out, though they’ve turned coffee brown for some reason. My book must be embalmed somehow.

 

[Yora]

What really surprised me was, IIRC, Rob Kuntz stating in another thread that Arneson made far more in royalties from D&D than Gygax ever did.

Which, you know, irony much?

I assume that would likely be because Arneson cashed out his share, while Gygax kept good amounts of his money in the company as funds for ongoing busines costs.

 

[Yora]

The B/X & more importantly B of the BECMI held your hand, but didn’t talk down to you, and encouraged you all at the same time.

Mentzer Basic is the only RPG I've ever seen that actually teaches the game instead of giving you a big pile of rules to figure out for yourself.

While that made the book a bit inconvenient for quickly looking stuff up later, I think in these days, every RPG should have at least a tutorial pdf that takes you through the basic procedures step by step.

 

[Cadence]

Starting around 1981 or 82, in Rockford, IL, I played in a game that had been running at the neighborhood comic/record/book shop. The owner had played at cons with the TSR folks from pretty early on and ran a game that had from 8 to almost 20 people playing each night. In the beginning, some people had OD&D, some had B/X, and some had 1e and I'm not sure if anyone knew or cared who had what. As it went along it did turn more to using AD&D. I don't remember anymore when she stopped running it in the mid-80s.

 

[GreyLord]

In the taxonomies I have seen the progression goes OD&D---->Holmes------>BX---->BECMI and RC, with 1e and 2e branching off. From my understanding 1e was made partly to be legally distinct from the OD&D trajectory. Gygax got the AD&D path with Arneson getting B/X (which is why the Blackmoor modules were published for the B/X ruleset).

10 days later...

I'd say the current connections of D&D are closer to the BX and BECMI versions than AD&D. Many feel that D&D 3e was the next version of AD&D, but in my opinion, it heralded a LOT MORE from BECMI and BX.

You have the much more varied stat bonuses which were closer to what BECMI had than AD&D. All characters profited from an ability bonus rather than some being restricted to certain classes...and the bonuses did not have oddities attached (like percentile strength). Far closer to BECMI and BX. Feats and such were closer in connection in my opinion to weapon mastery and skill options from the Companion and Master lines.

So...to extend the progressions into the modern era I'd probably put it as...

_____________________ AD&D ---- 2e AD&D ----- 2.5 _____________4e
____________________ /________________________________\ __________/_____\
OD&D ---- Holmes ----- BX ---- BECMI ---- RC ---- 3e ----- 3.5 ---- 5e

With the more direct lines connected via the main line, and some inspirations (for example some spells, and obviously most of the classes of 3e being inspired by the AD&D line though some have nothing in common with the AD&D line) coming from the branches.

 

[Yora]

AD&D branched off several years before B/X came out. B/X is not an ancestor of AD&D.

Saying that 3rd edition is an evolution of RC rather than AD&D second edition is weird. All the races, classes, and spells have continuity between 2nd edition and 3rd.

 

[Marc_C]

Generally editions are grouped like this on old TSR D&D forums:

OD&D
Holmes (with some unique rules by Holmes and influences by Gygax writing AD&D at the same time).
-------------------
Classic D&D (B/X + BECMI + RC). There are purist like me who prefer B/X over BECMI. Many BECMI players don't understand this sentiment. "Why can't we be just one big happy Classic BECMI family?"
-------------------
1e
-------------------
2e (+2.1)

Many people played an hybrid version which included the 1e Monster Manual with OD&D or Holmes but did not used the 1e PHB or the DMG went they came out.

There is a definite grouping of pre-2e editions together and 2e (2.1) standing alone. Many old school players feel that with 2e AD&D lost its soul. I prefer 2e.

If you want some of the roots of 3e look at 2.1 Skills & Powers.

 

[Sacrosanct]

AD&D branched off several years before B/X came out. B/X is not an ancestor of AD&D.

Saying that 3rd edition is an evolution of RC rather than AD&D second edition is weird. All the races, classes, and spells have continuity between 2nd edition and 3rd.

Yeah, especially when you look at the PO books (or 2.5 as some people refer to them as). Clearly 3e was heavily influenced by those. I want to say there was an interview with Cook about the design of 2e, and he said, "Of course we thought about doing ascending AC in 2e, but we also wanted to keep all 2e stuff compatible with 1e since gamers had a ton of 1e stuff and we didn't want them to feel like it wasn't usable any longer."

So it seems a lot of major changes in 3e were at the very least on the drawing board from 2e/2.5

 

[Yora]

There is a definite grouping of pre-2e editions together and 2e (2.1) standing alone. Many old school players feel that with 2e AD&D lost its soul. I prefer 2e.

Which brings us back to how this conversation started.

 

[Marc_C]

Which brings us back to how this conversation started.

Note that my AD&D group was doing epic arc story campaigns with 1e, before 2e came out. We read LOTR and wanted to replicate that. I suspect many other groups where doing that also. We never did hex crawl or murder hobo style. The Dragon Lance novels only reinforced what we were already doing before they came out.