A newb is faster than you.

[Wiseblood]

Does system mastery slow the game down?

When I think back on all the various RPG's I have learned, I remember things in the beginning being fatser. Sure it may be that I was not making the most tactically sound decisions. I was unburdened by system mastery. In some games I have come full circle and make brash decisions just to keep things moving. ( I tend to die... a lot.) Even then, I have meta-gamed in my mind.

I have been watching a handfull of gaming sessions on youtube. (nerdcred) All of them 4e but this is not 4e exclusive. D&D has some interesting stuff insofar as they have the celeberties of our hobby Authors, Artists, Designers and so on.

More than a few of these people profess to being novices at the game or still D&D virgins. The game seems to flow swiftly enough..poor Chris Perkins is always the DM, even in commercials. Sorry, I got sidetracked.
Others are veterans with years or decades of gaming experience. They don't exactly agonize over the decisions and no one needs to explain a rule or show them where to look for info on their character sheet. They are able to wring every action out of their turn and sometimes out of someone else's turn. I can't say I blame them, I would want to win too.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

It's a process:

1) Newb starts off glacially slow, unless helped out.

2) With experience comes speed

3) With mastery comes the ability to do the basic stuff on autopilot, but the ability & temptation to scour the rules to make the PC "perfect"- whether that means combat optimized or RP optimized. This means character creation can take minutes or as long as you care to make it.

 

[Verdande]

I think that the game moving slower as you gain system mastery is rather unique to games that still cling to their wargaming roots. In other words, the more important to the game combat is, the more time people will spend dealing with it. It's rather telling that you're referring to the speed of combat, as opposed to the speed of anything else a game might deal with.

Of course, the speed of a system's combat shouldn't increase as you learn more about it, either. But that takes a little more explaining.

 

[Croesus]

I'd suggest most of the slowdown, if it exists, is due to expanded options.

If you're playing an early version of D&D, how much time does it take to say "I swing my sword" or "I cast magic missile"? Even rather rules-heavy games like HERO can run quickly if each character only has a few options each phase.

But add in maneuvers, feats, avoiding AoO's, changing math on the fly ("Hmm, how points do I put into Power Attack this time...) and it can significantly slow down play.

 

[IronWolf]

More options in an RPG system certainly means more decisions need to be made. But if a player thinks about their options *before* their turn comes up it really doesn't have to add that much time to a combat.

In our group, the majority of players are ready to go when their turn in init comes up, because they thought about their actions before it was actually their turn. The mage knows what spell he wants to cast, the paladin knows his plan of attack and of course the fighter has a pretty clear idea of what he wants to do.

 

[Plane Sailing]

I think there may be an argument that systems with more rules cause slowdowns since they engender system mastery - a concept that has much less meaning in rules lite systems.

 

[Celebrim]

Over the last 20 years or so, I've had far far fewer problems with 'newbs' than experienced players.

1) Newbs tend to play faster even when they don't know the rules. Experienced players tend to spend more time trying to leverage every advantage to win.
2) Newbs tend to be more open to different gaming experiences. Experienced players tend to be beligerent about their tastes and preferences and will belittle other sorts of games and threaten to not play if others types are offered.
3) Newbs are more likely to role play and stay in character once coaxed to do so. Experienced players that didn't learn to role play won't learn or try. Or if they do, it will be like teaching a 15 year old that's never had language to talk compared to teaching a 2 year old. New role players are often amazing.
4) Newbs are less likely to be quarrelsome with the DM, or have other bad habits like metagaming, whining, cheating, rules lawyering, throwing temper tantrums when they don't get their way and so forth.
5) Newbs don't start with a chip on their shoulder.

I really often wonder whether abusive DMs are just the norm, or whether those players that are adrift without a group are adrift precisely because they are anti-social. In any event, I would rather have players that don't play than those that have.

 

[Crothian]

I think that new players are not really faster. If they don't know the rules then they have to say what they want. Then the DM has to figure out what that means in the ruleset and then tell the player what dice to roll. And then someone has to show the player the difference between a d20 and a d12. And then the new player is asking where on the character sheet the BAB is.

Players that pay attention and stay in the game tend to be faster. Players that know their character and what they can do tend to play faster. In our group I know the game better then everyone else at the table, and I'm usually the fastest player.

 

[ValhallaGH]

I've had far far fewer problems with 'newbs' than experienced players.

Pretty much the same experience. New players tend to be more awesome than established players, once they get past that initial period of reluctance. More creativity, a bit more Game Master trust, greater willingness to do stuff that's good for the story or simply fun, less concerned with mechanical minutia, and less prone to disrupting the game session.

Of course, a well-trained experienced player is a blessing. They know the rules, they stay in character, they don't meta-game, they can help people having troubles, and they've bought into the campaign. The ideal gamer, and a fantastic influence on new players.

Does system mastery slow the game down?

Not at all. Player indecisiveness does.
Sometimes that comes from knowing that your character stinks at the "awesome thing" you want to do. More often it comes from being lazy, disorganized, or uninterested in the game - which is a bit more common among experienced players than new players (who are trying to learn everything, so pay attention and try to keep themselves focused).

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

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