A request for information/opinion

[dragonfriend7738]

Okay, this is how I figured your superior unarmed strike maxes at level 16 2d6 your monk levels still do stack increasing it up by monk's unarmed damage which is 2d8 then you have improved natural which according to the SRD becomes 3d8.
Well in Unearthed Arcana there are things called flaws in which you take some form of penalty in trade for an extra general feat. Since you have good base stats I suggest pathetic, you take a -2 attribute of your choice. You can take a total of two but it must be another one. Since stand still is easy to qualify for you can get it immediately.
The problem with impact, keen,..etc is that natural attacks have crappy criticals(20/x2). So you get a 19-20 threat range, a 5% increase in chance to deal double against less then half the enemies out there and that is it. There is only one race that can get natural attacks with good criticals(Shifter Savagery), the Shifter. It is an Eberron race that has lineage of lycanthrope blooded half-breeds(elves, humans..who knows). As for the Kensai the VoP enhancement is outside what the Kensai can increase so you can put a +1 property immediately, it uses its own system. As for cost the fact is most people rely off spellcasters for greater magic weapon and go full properties so I don't see why you can't just treat exalted strike like that spell. Many of the ones mentioned and other good ones are in the Magic Item Compendium, wrathful healing is obscure(Enemies&Allies) and expensive(+3).

Yes, except that Kensai doesn't merge with monk for the purposes of determining the amount of damage that my unarmed strike deals, it just allows free cross-classing between Kensai and Monk (unless I'm missing something.) As such, I'm dealing damage as a level 6 monk with the benifits of Superior Unarmed Strike.

I was reading my abilities wrong, sorry. So basically, I'd have to embue my fists with a +1 bonus at Kensai level 1, and at level 2 I could start looking at other ability bonuses? (Using the '+1 bonus' as a number bonus and the 'ability bonus' as something like Vampiric Strike.)

Also, with the Kensai imbue ability, does that give me the ability to swap benifits as I level up? Say, at Ken1 I embue my fists with +1, at 2 I get +1 corrosive, at 3 could I sack the corrosive for a +1 and an ability that is the same as a +2?

I'll look into the flaws and run them by my DM to see if he's cool with them. One other player mentioned using a couple, so it should be good. If it works out, then awesome. I could stand to take a -2 to CHA and not worry about anything.

 

[emoplato]

Yes, except that Kensai doesn't merge with monk for the purposes of determining the amount of damage that my unarmed strike deals, it just allows free cross-classing between Kensai and Monk (unless I'm missing something.) As such, I'm dealing damage as a level 6 monk with the benifits of Superior Unarmed Strike.

I was reading my abilities wrong, sorry. So basically, I'd have to embue my fists with a +1 bonus at Kensai level 1, and at level 2 I could start looking at other ability bonuses? (Using the '+1 bonus' as a number bonus and the 'ability bonus' as something like Vampiric Strike.)

Also, with the Kensai imbue ability, does that give me the ability to swap benifits as I level up? Say, at Ken1 I embue my fists with +1, at 2 I get +1 corrosive, at 3 could I sack the corrosive for a +1 and an ability that is the same as a +2?

I'll look into the flaws and run them by my DM to see if he's cool with them. One other player mentioned using a couple, so it should be good. If it works out, then awesome. I could stand to take a -2 to CHA and not worry about anything.

You aren't fully bound by monk progression, superior unarmed strike has a damage chart of its own. The chart is better than your monk base than use that chart, treat it like taking a better bonus of the same type in that it overlaps. It would do 3d6 then, but you took six levels of monk and that is one of its hallmarks so why shouldn't it increase according to a monk's table? You still deal less base damage than a comparable monk.
I would think so but you would paying for a full new ability not just paying difference like if you had a +1 waited two levels than got a +2 but only payed (+3)-(+1).

 

[dragonfriend7738]

You aren't fully bound by monk progression, superior unarmed strike has a damage chart of its own. The chart is better than your monk base than use that chart, treat it like taking a better bonus of the same type in that it overlaps. It would do 3d6 then, but you took six levels of monk and that is one of its hallmarks so why shouldn't it increase according to a monk's table? You still deal less base damage than a comparable monk.
I would think so but you would paying for a full new ability not just paying difference like if you had a +1 waited two levels than got a +2 but only payed (+3)-(+1).

Why I think you're not quite right with your logic about the monk's damage:

Benefit: You deal more damage with your unarmed strikes,
as shown on the table below.

Character Level Unarmed Damage
3rd 1d4
4th–7th 1d6
8th–11th 1d8
12th–15th 1d10
16th–20th 2d6

Special: If you are a monk, you instead deal unarmed
damage as a monk four levels higher.

So, with the INA, if I hadn't taken any monk levels, that 1d4 becomes a d6, ect, up to level 16-20 where the 2d6 becomes 3d6 as per the DMG table.

However, since I have monk levels, and it states that I instead add 4 levels of monk to my damage ranking, I use the monk's class damage table. It would be different if it stated that I use whichever damage rating is better.

At level 15, when I gain SUS, I have 5 levels of monk under my belt; which effectively makes me deal damage equal to a Large lv 9 monk thanks to Improved Natural Attack and SUS, and according to the table in the PHB, that makes me deal 2d8 damage, and wouldn't increase until I hit 12 effective levels in monk, which I won't be able to do and still max out on Kensai levels.

However, when looking closer at the sample Kensai- who happens to be a monk/kensai- it reads that he has monk7/kensai 8, ECL 15 and a damage of 2d6- which a monk doesn't get until level 12. This could lead to the assumption that Kensai and Monk classes stack for damage progression, but it states that he is also wearing a monk's belt, which explains the difference in damage.

It would have been nice if they did stack, though. I would have ended up dealing 3d8 damage at 15 and graduate to 4d8 at 19.

As for the flaws, I'm looking at taking Insomniac and Claustrophobia (both from Dragon Mag), and gaining Nymph's Kiss and shifting all my bonus exalted feats up one from that- taking Nymph's Kiss at level one affords the max benifit from it anyhow. As for the second feat, I'm thinking of Stand Still, but if I sack my AoO for a trip attempt, how is Stand Still going to benifit me? And if it doesn't, what would be a better feat to gain?

Claustrophobic:
You are uncomfortable in closed spaces.

Effect:
You are shaken in any space where 2 sides or more are only 10 ft. apart or the ceiling is 10 ft. high.

Benifit:
Bonus feat

Insomniac:
You have difficulty getting a good night's sleep.

Effect:
DC 15 Fortitude save to receive a regular nights sleep. If a disturbance wakes you while sleeping you must make an additional save to return to
sleep. If you fail any of these checks you wake fatigued in the morning.

If you are fatigued when attempting to sleep, you gain a +2 on your save.
If you are exhausted you gain a +6 bonus instead. Comfortable conditions grant a +4 bonus on this save. Poor conditions make you suffer a -4 on
your save. Even if you sleep poorly, you still may prepare arcane spells after 8 hours of fitful rest.

Benifit:
Bonus feat

 

[emoplato]

Why I think you're not quite right with your logic about the monk's damage:



So, with the INA, if I hadn't taken any monk levels, that 1d4 becomes a d6, ect, up to level 16-20 where the 2d6 becomes 3d6 as per the DMG table.

However, since I have monk levels, and it states that I instead add 4 levels of monk to my damage ranking, I use the monk's class damage table. It would be different if it stated that I use whichever damage rating is better.

At level 15, when I gain SUS, I have 5 levels of monk under my belt; which effectively makes me deal damage equal to a Large lv 9 monk thanks to Improved Natural Attack and SUS, and according to the table in the PHB, that makes me deal 2d8 damage, and wouldn't increase until I hit 12 effective levels in monk, which I won't be able to do and still max out on Kensai levels.

However, when looking closer at the sample Kensai- who happens to be a monk/kensai- it reads that he has monk7/kensai 8, ECL 15 and a damage of 2d6- which a monk doesn't get until level 12. This could lead to the assumption that Kensai and Monk classes stack for damage progression, but it states that he is also wearing a monk's belt, which explains the difference in damage.

It would have been nice if they did stack, though. I would have ended up dealing 3d8 damage at 15 and graduate to 4d8 at 19.

As for the flaws, I'm looking at taking Insomniac and Claustrophobia (both from Dragon Mag), and gaining Nymph's Kiss and shifting all my bonus exalted feats up one from that- taking Nymph's Kiss at level one affords the max benifit from it anyhow. As for the second feat, I'm thinking of Stand Still, but if I sack my AoO for a trip attempt, how is Stand Still going to benifit me? And if it doesn't, what would be a better feat to gain?

Claustrophobic:
You are uncomfortable in closed spaces.

Effect:
You are shaken in any space where 2 sides or more are only 10 ft. apart or the ceiling is 10 ft. high.

Benifit:
Bonus feat

Insomniac:
You have difficulty getting a good night's sleep.

Effect:
DC 15 Fortitude save to receive a regular nights sleep. If a disturbance wakes you while sleeping you must make an additional save to return to
sleep. If you fail any of these checks you wake fatigued in the morning.

If you are fatigued when attempting to sleep, you gain a +2 on your save.
If you are exhausted you gain a +6 bonus instead. Comfortable conditions grant a +4 bonus on this save. Poor conditions make you suffer a -4 on
your save. Even if you sleep poorly, you still may prepare arcane spells after 8 hours of fitful rest.

Benifit:
Bonus feat

Well, if you ask most people here and in other D&D forums they would say as a rule of thumb to take the better of the two, but lets just leave it at that. As for Stand Still the way you use it is when they are trying to move. An AoO when it hits doesn't stop them from moving unless of course you kill or render them unconscious. It also occurs before the action is completed. People prone draw AoO's whenever they move or try to stand up. You can't trip them again until they stand up. Stand Still keeps them on the ground and immobile wasting their actions. Plus you actually only can trip large opponents due to your size and anything that freely levitates(not flying) can't be tripped. So, yes, keep the feat it will help immensely. How has property hunting been going? Do you have the Magic Item Compendium?

 

[dragonfriend7738]

Well, if you ask most people here and in other D&D forums they would say as a rule of thumb to take the better of the two, but lets just leave it at that. As for Stand Still the way you use it is when they are trying to move. An AoO when it hits doesn't stop them from moving unless of course you kill or render them unconscious. It also occurs before the action is completed. People prone draw AoO's whenever they move or try to stand up. You can't trip them again until they stand up. Stand Still keeps them on the ground and immobile wasting their actions. Plus you actually only can trip large opponents due to your size and anything that freely levitates(not flying) can't be tripped. So, yes, keep the feat it will help immensely. How has property hunting been going? Do you have the Magic Item Compendium?

I hadn't considered the levitating/ beyond large aspect of the feat, actually. That's a really good point.

I do have the magic item compendium, and am looking at the various abilities, but I've got some time before I need to work the issue, since we only just started the game today. One of our Paladins got crit'd and is now crippled in his off-hand arm, it was gnarly. Mostly because he managed to get hit while hitting a crit holy attack on a Crypt Fiend that caused an attack of opporunity. Great story telling and combat rp.

I'm heavily partial to acid damage as a player- there's so many different uses for it, so I'll probably go for the corrosive ability, especially since it's got an activation stipulation and I can turn it off at will. I'll definitely get Wrathful Healing as well, but like I said, that's so many levels from now that I can wait and do more planning on it.

What's the difference between Vampiric Touch and Wrathful Healing? Is WH just a healing effect and not a drain, and that's how it gets around dealing the user damage against undead?

 

[emoplato]

I hadn't considered the levitating/ beyond large aspect of the feat, actually. That's a really good point.

I do have the magic item compendium, and am looking at the various abilities, but I've got some time before I need to work the issue, since we only just started the game today. One of our Paladins got crit'd and is now crippled in his off-hand arm, it was gnarly. Mostly because he managed to get hit while hitting a crit holy attack on a Crypt Fiend that caused an attack of opporunity. Great story telling and combat rp.

I'm heavily partial to acid damage as a player- there's so many different uses for it, so I'll probably go for the corrosive ability, especially since it's got an activation stipulation and I can turn it off at will. I'll definitely get Wrathful Healing as well, but like I said, that's so many levels from now that I can wait and do more planning on it.

What's the difference between Vampiric Touch and Wrathful Healing? Is WH just a healing effect and not a drain, and that's how it gets around dealing the user damage against undead?

Vampiric touch gives a specified die damage and you heal equal to that. Wrathful Healing though just heals 50% of the damage you dealt. As for the acid the MIC has synergy properties which can be really fun for a kensai. What this allows to do is stack more effects than normally be allowed as the prerequisite ability is still active but the rating is overlapped by the synergy property. Let me give you an example, you are thinking of corrosive(+1) which qualifies you for energy surge(+1). This allows you to deal an extra 3d6 acid damage 1+con. times a day. Even though you have paid for two the weapon still is only treated as having +1 despite having both active. You could stack in +5 worth more of properties if you find the right ones.

 

[emoplato]

I do believe you have a feat or two open in the long build, right? You should look into mage slayer this denies the ever almighty ability of spell casters and spell-like ability users to cast defensively so you can make an AoO regardless(stunning, binding, and greater dispelling fist anyone?).