A Shadow, Hide in Plain Sight and Spring Attack - How does this work?

[Herremann the Wise]

Hello Everyone,

I'm just trying to work out how this would work. Imagine you have an incorporeal Shadow with the spring attack feat. Let's say it has the dark template (Tome of Magic) which among other things gives it the Hide in Plain Sight ability as well as movement 50ft.

What is the optimal legal way that this thing can attack. For example, is it allowed to attack a target using spring attack and then use its hide in plain sight ability to hide when moving away from the target? I'm just not too sure which is the best way to adjudicate on this or play the creatures abilities optimally.

By the way, under the new incorporeal rules, if the shadow strikes using its incorporeal touch attack (1d6 str), does it have a 50% chance of not affecting a corporeal target? What is the go here?

Best Regards
Herremann the Wise

 

[Hypersmurf]

By the way, under the new incorporeal rules...

Which?

-Hyp.

 

[Herremann the Wise]

Which?

-Hyp.

Tome of Magic
I think these are the same as in Libris Mortis but I'm not sure. I believe they are meant to supercede what's in the DMG and MM. I do not have my books with me at the moment but from memory this is it.

Best Regards
Herremann the Wise

 

[Legildur]

Tome of Magic

Isn't that like a 3.0E splatbook? :\

 

[Herremann the Wise]

Isn't that like a 3.0E splatbook? :\

You're thinking Tome and Blood. Tome of Magic is the relatively new WoTC book detailing pact, shadow and truename magic. It has quite a few interesting ideas in it that are worth exploring.

On that issue, I'm pretty sure the incorporeal creature's natural weapons always hit, it is only if it is using a magical weapon that it goes to 50% and non-magical 0% versus corporeal targets. I just thought I'd through the question in because I was not sure.

However, I'm more interested in how to extract as much Hide juice out of my bad guy without breaking the rules - I think this encounter is going to be quite nasty. I just want to verify whether it is able to hide after making a spring attack.

Best Regards
Herremann the Wise

 

[MarkB]

It pretty much does what it says on the tin. With Hide in Plain Sight, the Shadow will be able to make a Hide check whilst being observed (even after attacking), and anyone who doesn't beat it with a Spot check loses sight of it.

Does the HiPS ability from the Dark template have any special requirements that must be met? Class-based versions of HiPS tend to have such - i.e. a Ranger must be in natural terrain, and a Shadowdancer must be close to a shadow.

 

[Zaruthustran]

I play a spring attacking shadowdancer, so I'm really familiar with how it all works.

Here are the rules:

Check: Your Hide check is opposed by the Spot check of anyone who might see you. You can move up to one-half your normal speed and hide at no penalty. When moving at a speed greater than one-half but less than your normal speed, you take a –5 penalty. It’s practically impossible (–20 penalty) to hide while attacking, running or charging.

Assuming your Shadow wants to stay hidden the entire time:

1. Make a Hide check while moving on the way in to the target.
2. Make a Hide check while attacking (-20 penalty)
3. Make a Hide check while moving away from the target.

Apply the -5 penalty if you're moving more than half your normal speed.

If you succeed on all three checks the target will never see you and will have no idea what hit him.

-z

Edit: of course, as an incorporeal it can start and end its movement inside solid rock. Hiding is still a good idea, though, because it defeats those who would try to Ready actions to hit you. Since they never see you, their readied actions never trigger.

 

[Abraxas]

Assuming your Shadow wants to stay hidden the entire time:

1. Make a Hide check while moving on the way in to the target.
2. Make a Hide check while attacking (-20 penalty)
3. Make a Hide check while moving away from the target.

Apply the -5 penalty if you're moving more than half your normal speed.

The 3.5 FAQ combines 1 and 2 into a single step. If you used the FAQ as a model it would be

1. Make a Hide check to begin the encounter hidden.
2. Move up to the target and attack making a Hide check with a -20 penalty (to remain hidden while attacking)
3. Make a Hide check while moving away from the target.

And, as you stated, tack on an additional -5 penalty if moving more than half your normal speed.
Similar, but not exactly the same as you posted.

 

[Zaruthustran]

The 3.5 FAQ combines 1 and 2 into a single step. If you used the FAQ as a model it would be

1. Make a Hide check to begin the encounter hidden.
2. Move up to the target and attack making a Hide check with a -20 penalty (to remain hidden while attacking)
3. Make a Hide check while moving away from the target.

And, as you stated, tack on an additional -5 penalty if moving more than half your normal speed.
Similar, but not exactly the same as you posted.

Terrific--I hadn't seen that FAQ entry. Makes things a bit easier.

-z

 

[the Jester]

In general, incorporeal + Spring Attack = Bad News for the opposition.

I think this is a great idea.