A Tournament of Cosmic Propotions! (Immortal's Handbook Rules)

Buugipopuu

First Post
You should make it clear when you're making a ruling. Just stating rules without mentioning whether they're your own house rules or core rules means that you stating one of your house rules is syntactically indistinguishable from you misremembering a core rule. Furthermore, even if you are the DM, as someone with knowledge of the rules, I should point out things which you may have overlooked, since if you don't mention that you've considered a certain aspect, I have no idea if you've thought about it and decided to ignore it or just weren't aware of a certain thing. Nobody knows all the rules, after all. I know that as a DM in the past I've made rulings and then immediately overturned them when one of my players pointed out an exploit or other inconsistency generated by the rule I changed.
 

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Neoiceshroom

Banned
Banned
You should make it clear when you're making a ruling. Just stating rules without mentioning whether they're your own house rules or core rules means that you stating one of your house rules is syntactically indistinguishable from you misremembering a core rule. Furthermore, even if you are the DM, as someone with knowledge of the rules, I should point out things which you may have overlooked, since if you don't mention that you've considered a certain aspect, I have no idea if you've thought about it and decided to ignore it or just weren't aware of a certain thing. Nobody knows all the rules, after all. I know that as a DM in the past I've made rulings and then immediately overturned them when one of my players pointed out an exploit or other inconsistency generated by the rule I changed.

As always you bring clarity to my mind. Thanks again for being here Buugi. I'll consider your words.

The FX system is what really needs work right now though, not the proverbial glossary of my D&D universe.

How I wish Belzamus were here...
 

Belzamus

First Post
I'm following along, just got a ton going on right now and can't really contribute meaningfully at the moment. Sorry. I'll keep checking in though.
 

Neoiceshroom

Banned
Banned
I'm following along, just got a ton going on right now and can't really contribute meaningfully at the moment. Sorry. I'll keep checking in though.

I know exactly what you could do to contribute when you do have time my good friend.

All you must do, is simply post the exact rules for your epic spell/power/whatever system. If you would like I can offer my analysis on your system and we can work to improve it if you so desire. In fact, I'll wager that you and I together could craft a system superior to any that has preceded it.

EMG, Buugi, you guys are more than welcome to contribute to this as well, but I honestly think this tournament deserves it's own FX ability system.
 



Belzamus

First Post
I... want to say no, given my dislike of the seed system, but I never really looked into it.

The tricky part is going to be that it's originally written to use spell points, since my setting I designed it for uses those instead of spell slots. But that might not be so much of a problem to convert.

I also have a cap on spell level. 100 I believe, though I only designed spells for my setting up to 60. (In my rules, epic spells are just higher-than-9th-level spells)

I believe they also have a base number of ranks in spellcraft required to cast them, and they're just... pretty much... come up with an idea for the spell and work with the DM to adjudicated an appropriate level. Not the most technical system, I know. Again, I only invented them to flesh out my campaign setting (which involved an entire overhaul of the whole game...)

They're also fully compatible with my immortals magic and metamagic abilities, so I'll have to post them too.

That said, I have serious reservations whether these will be of benefit at all for tournament.
 

Belzamus

First Post
Right. So, first of all, my magic and metamagic abilities. Keep in mind with these: I do not allow the stacking of metamagic whatsoever, and I do not allow more than 1 quickened spell per round unless the caster has additional swift actions.

That said, these are largely untested.

[sblock]
Cataclysmic Spell [Epic] [Metamagic]

Your magic strikes with all elemental fury.

Prerequisites: Spellcraft 38 ranks, Energy Admixture (Acid, Cold, Electricity, Fire), Energy Substitution (Acid, Cold, Electricity, Fire)
Benefit: Any spell that deals elemental damage deals damage of all four elements instead. i.e. a Cataclysmic Fireball would deal 10d6 points of Acid, Cold, Electricity, and Fire damage.
Special: A spell modified by Cataclysmic Spell occupies a slot 5 levels higher.

Dire Spell [Epic]

Your spells are terribly powerful.

Prerequisites: Deadly Spell, Spellcraft 28 ranks
Benefit: Any variable numeric components of your spells have their die-size increased by one category.

Masterful Spell [Epic]

Your mastery of magic is an artwork.

Prerequisites: Heighten Spell, Spellcraft 33 ranks
Benefit: The cap for all your spells is doubled, i.e. a Masterful Fireball would deal 30d6 damage if cast by a 20th level caster, rather than 10d6.


Thaumaturgic Spell [Epic]

Your magic is infused with divine power.

Prerequisites: 6 Metamagic Feats, Spellcraft 43 ranks
Benefit: Any damage dealt by your spells is considered half Divine Damage.


Annihilating Spell [Divine]

Your magic obliterates those it strikes.

Prerequisites: 6 Metamagic Feats, Spellcraft 43 ranks
Benefit: Any damage dealt your spells is considered Permanent Damage.

Dolorous Spell [Divine] [Metamagic]

Your spells are grievously powerful.

Prerequisites: Dire Spell, Spellcraft 63 ranks
Benefit: Any variable numeric components of your spells are increased from its original die-size to d12s.

Prodigious Spell [Divine]

Your mastery of magic is legendary.

Prerequisites: Masterful Spell, Spellcraft 68 ranks
Benefit: The cap for all your spells is quadrupled, i.e. a Prodigious Fireball cast by a 70th level wizard would deal 40d6 damage rather than 10d6.

Quintessential Spell [Divine] [Metamagic]

Your spells are especially effective against Immortals.

Prerequisites: Theurgic Spell, Spellcraft 78 ranks
Benefit: For every 4 points of Divine Bonus possessed by the spell’s target, the all numeric components of the spell double. i.e. a Quintessential Fireball cast at a Greater Deity would deal 40d6 damage.
Special: A Quintessential Spell takes up a slot 5 levels higher than normal.

Resonating Spell [Divine] [Metamagic]

Your magic resounds through all that you perceive.

Prerequisites: 12 Metamagic Feats, Spellcraft 73 ranks
Benefit: The spell effects every creature within the caster’s Divine Aura.
Special: A spell modified by Resonating Spell occupies a slot 6 levels higher.
Special: If the caster does not possess a Divine Aura, the spell effects everything within 100 ft. + 10 ft. per Caster Level.


Telluric Spell [Divine] [Metamagic]

Your magic intensifies with each use.

Prerequisites: 12 Metamagic Feats, Spellcraft 83 ranks
Benefit: The spell’s effect is doubled each time it is cast against the same target.
Special: A spell modified by Telluric Spell occupies a slot 6 levels higher.
Special: The same spell must be cast at the same target for the feat to take effect. i.e. if a Telluric Fireball is cast three times at the same target, it would deal 40d6 damage on the third casting, whereas if the caster instead cast a Telluric Fireball, a Telluric Lightning Bolt, and a Telluric Polar Ray, each spell would only have its normal effect.

Theurgic Spell [Divine]

Your magic is purely divine

Prerequisites: Thaumaturgic Spell, 12 Metamagic Feats, Spellcraft 73 ranks
Benefit: Any damage your spells do is considered Divine Damage

Transient Spell [Divine] [Metamagic]

Your magic warps space and time.

Prerequisites: 12 Metamagic Feats, Spellcraft 83 ranks
Benefit: The spell strikes three times simultaneously, once in the present, once in the immediate past, and once in the immediate future.
Special: A spell modified by Transient Spell occupies a slot 6 levels higher.

Devastating Spell [Cosmic]

Your spells are catastrophically powerful.

Prerequisites: Dolorous Spell, Spellcraft 123 ranks
Benefit: Any variable numeric components of your spells are increased from their original die-size to d20s.

Immediate Spell [Cosmic] [Metamagic]

Your spell is cast faster than thought.

Prerequisites: Quicken Spell, Spellcraft 148 ranks
Benefit: The spell is cast as an Immediate Action, allowing it to be used on another character’s turn.
Special: An Immediate Spell takes up a slot 8 levels higher.

Surpassing Spell [Cosmic]

Your mastery of magic is without peer.

Prerequisites: Prodigious Spell, Spellcraft 153 ranks
Benefit: Your spells have no cap, i.e. a Surpassing Fireball cast by a 180th level wizard would deal 180d6 damage instead of 10d6.

Ultima Spell [Cosmic] [Metamagic]

Your magic knows no limits.

Prerequisites: 24 Metamagic Feats, Spellcraft 183 ranks
Benefit: The spell recasts itself for a number of rounds equal to the caster’s Caster Level.
Special: A spell modified by Ultima Spell occupies a slot 24 levels higher.


Doomsday Spell [Transcendental]

Your spells are impossibly powerful.

Prerequisites: Devastating Spell, Spellcraft 243 ranks
Benefit: Any variable numeric components of your spells are increased from their original die-size to d100s.

Omega Spell [Transcendental] [Metamagic]

Your magic is absolute.

Prerequisites: 48 Metamagic Feats, Spellcraft 263 ranks
Benefit: The effects of the spell are permanent and cannot be undone by any means. i.e. a target slain by an Omega Finger of Death cannot be returned to life by any means.
Special: A spell modified by Omega Spell occupies a slot 48 levels higher.


Unreal Spell [Transcendental] [Metamagic]

Your magic is irresistible.

Prerequisites: 64 Metamagic Feats, Spellcraft 343 ranks
Benefit: The spell allows no Spell Resistance, no Saving Throw, and ignores any resistance or immunity.
Special: An Unreal Spell takes up a slot 64 levels higher.

[/sblock]


For my actual epic spell rules... it appears I never wrote them down. >_<

Will have to go from memory. Beyond what I mentioned above, I believe the feat Epic Spellcasting under my system allowed the caster to learn an Epic Spell, and each spell has a prerequisite in spellcraft ranks required to learn it. A caster could cast a number of epic spells per day equal to the number of epic spellcasting feats he has -- all casters in my setting are spontaneous. Like I said, I really don't think this system will work.

But, I'm going to include a sample spell here to show hopefully what the system looks like since, that's all I have.

Oh, also, my epic spells can't be modified with metamagic, but they each offer an optional effect for additional spell points which often simulate a particular metamagic. (So, in my system, you have both high-MM'd 0-9th level spells, and then epic spells, and ideally, both are equally useful). Note that the non-MM magic abilities up there still apply to them, in most cases, also. Again, I don't know how you would convert this.

Anyway, here's a sample spell.

[sblock] Apotheosis of Fire [Wyrd]

Transmutation [Fire]
Spellcraft: 41
Spell Points: 31
Spell Level: 16th
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 Full Round Action
Range: Personal Emanation
Area: 20 ft.
Duration: 1 round per level or until ended
Saving Throw: Reflex ½
Spell Resistance: Yes

The Wyrd turns to fire in your blood, and you erupt with flames of every conceivable hue, burning your enemies to death and yourself to a glorious rebirth.

Upon casting this spell, the caster becomes shrouded in fire, gaining an aura out to 20 ft. All creatures within this aura take 1d4 Fire damage per caster level each round. The caster, likewise, takes Fire damage each round equal to their caster level.

If the caster is killed, or when the spell's duration ends, the caster explodes in a blossoming inferno, creating a burst out to 10 ft. per caster level dealing 1d10 Fire damage per caster level. The caster may instead cause this effect prematurely, however, the effect's damage is reduced to 1d6 per caster level with this usage. Regardless, this explosion kills the caster

1 round after the caster dies while this spell is active, they are restored to life in the same square in which they died (or in the nearest unoccupied square). Their Hit Points are completely restored, and they suffer no penalty for dying. They do not recover Spell Points from this effect.

By spending an additional 11 spell points, the caster may cast this spell as a Standard Action. [/sblock]

I really doubt we can use this system, and I really kind of stopped working on it halfway through designing it, so it might be horribly unbalanced, but there it is.
 
Last edited:

Buugipopuu

First Post
I thought about Epic Spells, and concluded that until there was a sensible way of having save-or-suck spells without making them useless, something that's just spammed hoping for natural 1s, or something that means whoever wins initiative automatically wins, there's not too much point in having such a system, as it tends to just end up being full of buffs and blaster spells with bigger numbers. I was thinking of some kind of duration reduction thing to replace most (but not all) status immunity, as it reduces the effect of save-or-suck spells without needing to touch the delicate saves/DCs balance or mess around with Immunity/Immunity Penetration arms races. Duration reduction should reduce durations either by step (Permanent/Weeks/Months/Years/etc -> Days -> Hours -> Minutes -> Rounds -> Seconds) or by a fixed number of rounds, whichever is better at the time. In the case of reducing by a number of rounds, it is expended like energy resistance. ( e.g. If you had Duration Reduction 120 vs Blindness, and were hit by a Blindness spell lasting 60 rounds, and then another lasting 80, the second one would go through, but only last 20 rounds). Obviously the exact numbers requires actual maths, rather than just something I thought up while walking onto campus.

While there are minor balance issues with those feats, since you're not actually considering using any of them I won't bother mentioning any. There's one major balance problem I can see. Resonating Spell has a selection of broken applications. The most obvious is that combining it with Greater Celerity and one ally gives a trivial infinite action loop. With Mime Spell you don't even expend any resources after the first casting (I'm reminded of the Final Fantasy Quickening infinite action loops). The second is it has major Bag of Rats potential. If you can get a lot of people together (easy with summons, followers or controlled undead), a lot of spells become completely broken. Shapechange is already bad, but now that group of first level warriors you hired? They're all Umbral Blots. The third is that it has issues with targeting restrictions. I'm not sure how you intended it to interact with melee touch spells, for instance. Lastly, it seems to mainly be useful for horrible abuses (mainly due to self-buffs which were never meant to be multi-target, or personal-range offensive spells like Lightning Ring, which get very powerful very quickly when combined with expendable summons) but not actually very useful for non-cheesy things. It can't be used for offence since any offensive spells you cast also hurt you, and your allies, and in-combat healing or buffing doesn't work because you also end up buffing/healing your enemies.
 

Neoiceshroom

Banned
Banned
I... want to say no, given my dislike of the seed system, but I never really looked into it.

The tricky part is going to be that it's originally written to use spell points, since my setting I designed it for uses those instead of spell slots. But that might not be so much of a problem to convert.

I was actually looking into the rules for Spell Points and thus far I really like what I have read about them. I have been using spells per day for so very long that I had forgotten that a spell point system was ever even designed. To be honest I may consider trying to convert my setting over to spell points, not just for the sake of this tournament, but because I believe the point system to be more fluid and versatile, especially at epic levels.

I also have a cap on spell level. 100 I believe, though I only designed spells for my setting up to 60. (In my rules, epic spells are just higher-than-9th-level spells)

Excellent... then you CAN help me with Boccobs' spellbook :)

I believe they also have a base number of ranks in spellcraft required to cast them, and they're just... pretty much... come up with an idea for the spell and work with the DM to adjudicated an appropriate level. Not the most technical system, I know. Again, I only invented them to flesh out my campaign setting (which involved an entire overhaul of the whole game...)

They're also fully compatible with my immortals magic and metamagic abilities, so I'll have to post them too.

That said, I have serious reservations whether these will be of benefit at all for tournament.

I think the system as is will be utterly useless, however it is merely one part of a greater whole. I think if You, Buugi and I work together on designing an entirely new system from the ground up and use your system as a foundation we will produce something that is marvelous indeed to behold and joyously fun to play with.


I thought about Epic Spells, and concluded that until there was a sensible way of having save-or-suck spells without making them useless, something that's just spammed hoping for natural 1s, or something that means whoever wins initiative automatically wins, there's not too much point in having such a system, as it tends to just end up being full of buffs and blaster spells with bigger numbers. I was thinking of some kind of duration reduction thing to replace most (but not all) status immunity, as it reduces the effect of save-or-suck spells without needing to touch the delicate saves/DCs balance or mess around with Immunity/Immunity Penetration arms races. Duration reduction should reduce durations either by step (Permanent/Weeks/Months/Years/etc -> Days -> Hours -> Minutes -> Rounds -> Seconds) or by a fixed number of rounds, whichever is better at the time. In the case of reducing by a number of rounds, it is expended like energy resistance. ( e.g. If you had Duration Reduction 120 vs Blindness, and were hit by a Blindness spell lasting 60 rounds, and then another lasting 80, the second one would go through, but only last 20 rounds). Obviously the exact numbers requires actual maths, rather than just something I thought up while walking onto campus.

This is a splendid idea my friend! I am thrilled at the very prospect of it because it adds a new element of balance to the spell system. In order for the damage reduction to scale very well I imagine it would have to be multiplicative in order to scale with damage at higher levels, but that begs the question... multiplicative based upon what factors?

While there are minor balance issues with those feats, since you're not actually considering using any of them I won't bother mentioning any. There's one major balance problem I can see. Resonating Spell has a selection of broken applications. The most obvious is that combining it with Greater Celerity and one ally gives a trivial infinite action loop. With Mime Spell you don't even expend any resources after the first casting (I'm reminded of the Final Fantasy Quickening infinite action loops). The second is it has major Bag of Rats potential. If you can get a lot of people together (easy with summons, followers or controlled undead), a lot of spells become completely broken. Shapechange is already bad, but now that group of first level warriors you hired? They're all Umbral Blots. The third is that it has issues with targeting restrictions. I'm not sure how you intended it to interact with melee touch spells, for instance. Lastly, it seems to mainly be useful for horrible abuses (mainly due to self-buffs which were never meant to be multi-target, or personal-range offensive spells like Lightning Ring, which get very powerful very quickly when combined with expendable summons) but not actually very useful for non-cheesy things. It can't be used for offence since any offensive spells you cast also hurt you, and your allies, and in-combat healing or buffing doesn't work because you also end up buffing/healing your enemies.

The same could be said for your meldshaping epic feats my good man, but that is all minor tweaks and tinkers that we can do at a later date. :)
 

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