D&D 5E A use for True Strike

[FrozenNorth]

Suggestion - actually give the calculation to prove it. If he didn't accept it unexplained before, you've given no new information to get the other person to accept it now.

Unless you figure folks are supposed to take it because of... you're outstanding charisma?

Well, he used True Strike right before casting Enhance Ability (Charisma), so I think he will be OK.

 

[jmartkdr2]

If the only change is TS becomes a bonus action, and a warlock takes it, then I think that they'd be giving up hex (b/c concentration) for advantage on the first beam each turn, with the cost being a cantrip known as opposed to a spell slot and a spell known.

I have no idea if that's a good trade-off, though. You don't get a ton of cantrips (and at the levels where this helps the most, you only get 2), so you'd lose a lot of potential utility for a bit of a damage boost. But that damage boost is close to what hex gives (I think)...

 

[Ruin Explorer]

I have no idea if that's a good trade-off, though.

It's really, really, really bad trade-off. Hex is +1d6/attack. Even at one attach that's an average of +3.5 damage if the attack lands. Advantage is a slight increase for the first attack (only) to land. Even with just one attack, it's likely something like going for a 70% hit chance to an 85% one (best case I think it's just below a 25% gain). Given EB does 1d10 damage, going from 70% chance to 85% going from 3.85 DPR to 4.67 DPR. Whereas Hex is 1d10+1d6 at 70%, so 5.6 DPR. I'd say that isn't even "close" to Hex.

And if you have multiple attacks, TS only helps the first, so the loss becomes massive, as you're comparing 3.85 to 5.6 DPR per attack.

Not that EB needs to be better, but ouch.

 

[jaelis]

Yeah I didn't think about the multiple attack rolls issue. But EB more likely does 1d10+5...

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Yeah I didn't think about the multiple attack rolls issue. But EB more likely does 1d10+5...

The flat modifier doesn't make much odds. Let's say it does 1d10+5. That implies at least level 8, so two attacks.

Bonus Action True Strike + EB - First attack 8.92, second attack 7.35. Total DPR 16.27, and you blew your bonus action so it can't be used for anything else.

Hex + EB. 2 x 9.8 for Total DPR of 19.6

Bonus Action True Strike remains way behind. +1d6 damage is hard to beat, except with like +2d6 damage or something.

Let's say your to-hit is really bad though. Like you have a 40% chance to hit and know it. That means a 64% (63.9 actually but w/e) chance with Advantage - about the biggest gain you can expect.

BA True Strike is thus 6.72 and 4.2, total DPR 10.92

Hex + EB is 2 x 5.6, total DPR 11.2 - Still ahead.

Much smaller difference, but that's an extremely low hit chance. If your odds are that bad, you are probably better switching over to a save-based spell (not a cantrip) to try and deal with the situation.

 

[DND_Reborn]

I've never worried about Warlock since EB requires multiple attack rolls.

Well, as a bonus action the sequence (using Fire Bolt) becomes TS+FB each round. So, the second round forward the FB has advantage each time. With a 2d10 FB, this bumps average damage from 7.15 to 10.3125 assuming 60% hit probability. That is a 44% bump for a cantrip each round.

Now, let's look at the restrictions:

1. It is concentration, so it can be broken. (This doesn't happen much at my table, but YMMV.)
2. The target must be within 30 feet. (I see this as more significant because it means you can't use TS at decent range.)
3. It requires the bonus action. (Now, a lot of casters have some bonus action stuff, but for Arcane Tricksters this is HUGE because it means no Cunning Action.)
4. It is self only. You target a creature within 30 feet, but you can't have someone else benefit from the spell since it is your attack roll.

Are those restrictions enough to warrant a 44% bump each round? It sounds like a lot, but it is really barely 3 points in this example. It does prevent other concentration spells, it allows only a cantrip to be cast the same round, so repeated uses means repeated cantrips and not other attack spells.

As a bonus action, it allows the EK to attack each round it is cast as well, but he only benefits on his first attack next turn. I suppose that is significant but not huge.

You know, @jaelis, I am coming around. Maybe it isn't too big of a buff to the spell... I'll have to give it further thought.

 

[Asisreo]

The flat modifier doesn't make much odds. Let's say it does 1d10+5. That implies at least level 8, so two attacks.

Bonus Action True Strike + EB - First attack 8.92, second attack 7.35. Total DPR 16.27, and you blew your bonus action so it can't be used for anything else.

Hex + EB. 2 x 9.8 for Total DPR of 19.6

Bonus Action True Strike remains way behind. +1d6 damage is hard to beat, except with like +2d6 damage or something.

Let's say your to-hit is really bad though. Like you have a 40% chance to hit and know it. That means a 64% (63.9 actually but w/e) chance with Advantage - about the biggest gain you can expect.

BA True Strike is thus 6.72 and 4.2, total DPR 10.92

Hex + EB is 2 x 5.6, total DPR 11.2 - Still ahead.

Much smaller difference, but that's an extremely low hit chance. If your odds are that bad, you are probably better switching over to a save-based spell (not a cantrip) to try and deal with the situation.

All this math, while useful in analyzing what's the best option, might be giving the wrong picture on D&D. If you want to maximize DPR, there's plenty of ways to muchkin it to have the highest numbers. But it depends on if it's in the spirit of the game being ran. True strike works, it doesn't work well but does it need to? Does it need to be a damaging cantrip's equal?

But this is exactly what I suspected when I made this thread. Once numbers get involved and it's apparent that true strike isn't competing with other combat cantrips, people will try to fix it.

But I don't want to fix it. I don't even want to see it be good. I just want to see if there's some creative ways, RAW, to have true strike be effective. That it, really.

 

[jaelis]

I just want to see if there's some creative ways, RAW, to have true strike be effective.

Nope.

 

[DND_Reborn]

But I don't want to fix it. I don't even want to see it be good. I just want to see if there's some creative ways, RAW, to have true strike be effective. That it, really.

Sorry, but since the OP was about a combo to cause damage using it, I thought that was your direction.

Otherwise, I don't see it having much use RAW. It can be used to conserve spell slots when hitting it an issue. Something like a caster using Chromatic Orb and getting advantage because it is the only slot left will have about the same damage as casting a damage cantrip and the CO anyway (you're talking less than 0.2 damage per round). An Arcane Trickster rogue can use it at close range, but if he is hidden he already has advantage... And so on. Paladins don't have to worry because they smite after the hit, so no preservation of slots there.

But, no, not really. Which is why you just don't see it used IME in a game. In fact, I have never seen it used...

 

[TaranTheWanderer]

I'd just change it to:

True Strike
Time: 1 action
Concentration: no
Your next attack ignores cover and is more likely to hit:
-A critical failure becomes a failure
-a failure becomes a success
-a success becomes a critical success

Then it also stacks with advantage.

Otherwise, The only time I can see it being useful is if you find a way to cast it as a bonus action and you have no other use for your bonus action. But, as people have argued, that use is situational and/or questionable.