D&D 5E Ability Score Increases (I've changed my mind.)

[Faolyn]

Honestly ... I'm starting to think Race/Lineage shouldn't even give ability boosts, it should be Class or Background.

That's what they're doing in Level Up. Each background gives a +1 bonus to a specific stat and then a +1 floating bonus (characters in LU have more abilities so the base ASI is limited to +1/+1). I've made a bunch of sample characters all using point buy, and it seems to work very well.

 

[Micah Sweet]

"what the player and dm invent" is called world building and is a much much greater source of distinction making than "+2 dex" (which amounts to a 5% increase on associated d20 rolls). Honestly, even a feature like elven trance does much more work in making elves distinctive at the table compared to an ability score modifier ("my character is an elf, which means she is naturally graceful!" rolls a 7...)

I LOVE worldbuilding. To me its the most fun part of being a DM. But players and DMs both need help to make that happen, or the tyranny of "but you can do ANYTHING" will inevitably result. The books have to do some of the heavy lifting, both lore and mechanics-wise, or why are we buying them?

 

[Micah Sweet]

It doesn't have to, but it also demonstrates that having mechanical differentiation of races isn't required to have race as a distinct entity in the narrative.

Taking away mechanics doesn't necessarily make race meaningless, is all.

But you can't take away mechanics from D&D and have it still be D&D. We have to work with the structure we have, to some degree.

 

[Micah Sweet]

But even without ASIs--fixed, floating, or nonexistent--elves are different from humans. They have very different game traits. They have different biological needs (at minimum: sleep versus trance), and their biology is going to mean that they process information differently (at minimum: darkvision versus no darkvision). And they are going to have very different mentalities, personalities, interests, and desires due to being raised in likely very different societies and being of likely very different ages.

The fact that PH humans get either +1 across the board or +1/+1 and PH elves get +2 Dex/+1 something else means next nothing other than the most dexterous 1st-level point-buy elf is going to be marginally more dexterous than the most dexterous 1st-level point-buy human.

I agree in theory, but trance and darkvision and not very robust as racial abilities go. All the other stuff you described would vary from table to table, which means half the player base will disagree with any particular implementation.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

But even without ASIs--fixed, floating, or nonexistent--elves are different from humans. They have very different game traits. They have different biological needs (at minimum: sleep versus trance), and their biology is going to mean that they process information differently (at minimum: darkvision versus no darkvision). And they are going to have very different mentalities, personalities, interests, and desires due to being raised in likely very different societies and being of likely very different ages.

Yes. So if biological essentialism is problematic, all that has to go.

 

[le Redoutable]

I don't know what this means but I don't like where it is going.

I'd rather Buddhism to be left out of this conversation.

meeerde! " don't speak religion !"
that's it ?

 

[Faolyn]

Yes. So if biological essentialism is problematic, all that has to go.

"Can see in the dark and trances instead of sleeps" is enormously different from "is inherently murderous."

 

[Crimson Longinus]

"Can see in the dark and trances instead of sleeps" is enormously different from "is inherently murderous."

Sure. I am not disagreeing with that at all. But some people seem to say that any biological essentialism is problematic, which logically must mean that fantasy species cannot exist. Also, "Can see in the dark and trances instead of sleeps" is probably about as problematic than "tends to be physically stronger than a human."

Like the humans actually are basically the same, and it is racist to say that one ethnicity is somehow seriously different that another. But if we cannot say that about fantasy races, they cannot exist because the bloody point is that they're different than humans (and each other.)

 

[TwoSix]

But you can't take away mechanics from D&D and have it still be D&D. We have to work with the structure we have, to some degree.

You can take away some mechanics from D&D and have it still be D&D, or we wouldn't have 5 editions of mechanics churn. Where the line exists that defines any one mechanic as necessary to the feel of D&D is blurry at best, and can really only be guessed at by surveying the play population in aggregate.

I'll certainly agree that you and several other posters seem to feel that attribute bonuses are a necessary condition to maintain the feel of D&D races; I don't think that's been anywhere near proven for the market as a whole. I'm certainly not saying you're definitely wrong, but my gut feeling is that the market as a whole cares very little. I think getting rid of race/ancestry entirely as a choice, or making it entirely freeform would be a bridge too far, yes.

 

[Umbran]

Is that an issue with the existence of stereo-/archetype? Or with the specific content that one may have?

Human cognition cannot operate strictly on the concept of specific individual objects. We must have general classes (like "apple"). Every non-proper noun is, in essence, a stereotype. Our stereotypes are rather inaccurate, but usually we manage and adjust for it.

We run into issues when we do that with people, because (for reasons) our stereotypes are wildly inaccurate, and we typically refuse to manage and adjust for that (for reasons), and then people get hurt.

I don't usually care so much if an individual apple is done an injustice, but a person matters. And when that person becomes thousands or millions of people, we have a problem on our hands.