D&D 5E Ability Score Increases (I've changed my mind.)

[Yaarel]

I understand. Elves (to me) are sylvan creatures more than anything. They have fey ancestry, but they belong to the material plane now, which makes them slightly less innately magical (to me).

But there are still elves alive and well in the fey plane, existing as ethereal spirits. Why should they be forced into the one-size-fits-all Dexterity stereotype?

I hate that 5e decided on a +2/+1 format, then damaged the elf traditions because of arbitrarily forcing the +2 onto Dexterity, even when it is clearly wrong.

When I think "elf" I think "bow and arrow."

Heh, thats kinda ethnocentric.

That's just how they occur to me in my fantasy, and that's how they've been represented in D&D's brand of fantasy (at least its core).

I want you to have D&D 5e support your favorite elf tradition too.

Rules variants are official!

I mean. I want 5e to officially say. This is what a "sun elf" looks like: Intelligence +2.

By contrast, to say, do whatever you want, is the opposite of support.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

I asked what they represent to you.

Basically what the PHB says. And ultimately if the score called 'strength' has no correlation to how strong the creature is in the fiction, I really see no point in having it. If it is just way to arrive to some level-appropriate bonus, then just get rid of it and give all characters the bonus their class assumes and do not pretend it represents anything.

 

[Bill Zebub]

When I think "elf" I think "bow and arrow."

I do, too.

But I would never design a combat bonus into the race (even though there's precedent for that) because doing so would make elves the "best" choice for an archer build. Which is precisely what floating ASIs are trying to avoid.

Free proficiency helps convey that theme, but in an especially boring way (imo). I'd love to think of a ribbon feature that let's the character do something that conveys "at one with a bow" but without making it straight up better at combat.

 

[abirdcall]

It is no surprise to me that the same people who were arguing that druids can wear metal armour are arguing for floating racial ASIs.

It is a move away from class/archetype based design and towards free form point buy as well as strategy mechanics first rather than narrative first design.

I don't think people should be free to make any and all character concepts.

I want there to be specific ones presented in the books to choose from and then to have individualized personalities applied to them.

We have games like GURPs and I have no interest in that.

 

[mrpopstar]

But there are still elves alive and well in the fey plane, existing as ethereal spirits. Why should they be forced into the one-size-fits-all Dexterity stereotype?

I hate that 5e decided on a +2/+1 format, then damaged the elf traditions because of arbitrarily forcing the +2 onto Dexterity, even when it is clearly wrong.

Heh, thats kinda ethnocentric.

LOL Perhaps. It's just what springs to my mind.

I want you to have D&D 5e support your favorite elf tradition.

It's bigger than me, though. The elf that is core to D&D's branded experience is especially dextrous. It says so in the Player's Handbook.

Is there room for other elves? Sure, but if we're expressing our opinions, I'm both conservative and progressive on this matter. +2 Dex, +1 whatever you want.

I mean. I want 5e to officially say. This is what a "sun elf" looks like: Intelligence +2.

You should anticipate that there will be those who think that's a straight-jacket of stereotype that ruins the experience because they want a Sun Elf that's a total beast and needs a +2 Str else all is lost because the evil overlords hate their fun.

It's an unfortunate slippery slope. There's something that unifies all elves, like +2 Dex, or there isn't.

By contrast, to say, do whatever you want, is the opposite of support.

True statement.

 

[Yaarel]

I do, too.

But I would never design a combat bonus into the race (even though there's precedent for that) because doing so would make elves the "best" choice for an archer build. Which is precisely what floating ASIs are trying to avoid.

Free proficiency helps convey that theme, but in an especially boring way (imo). I'd love to think of a ribbon feature that let's the character do something that conveys "at one with a bow" but without making it straight up better at combat.

The British concept of "elfshot", makes a great cantrip. When the wood elf uses a bow, shoot magical invisible arrows that inflict painful psychic damage. When reaching zero hit points, the target suffers a stroke, and becomes paralyzed instead of dying.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Is that the human with the +2 Dex? The +2 Int? The +2 Con? Which "human" are they not like? Because with the Variant human and a feat I can make any combination of abilities at all. So how is your elf more like an elf than a human if my human also has a +2 Dex?

So if the +2 Dex isn't enough to make them nonhuman (and I sympathize) what is? Because pointy ears, darkvision and trance aren't going to cut it for me.

 

[mrpopstar]

The British concept of "elfshot", makes a great cantrip. When the wood elf uses a bow, shoot magical invisible arrows that inflict painful psychic damage. When reaching zero hit points, the target suffers a stroke, and becomes paralyzed instead of dying.

Feels very "Zelda" to me.

 

[Yaarel]

It's bigger than me, though. The elf that is core to D&D's branded experience is especially dextrous. It says so in the Player's Handbook.

Is there room for other elves? Sure, but if we're expressing our opinions, I'm both conservative and progressive on this matter. +2 Dex, +1 whatever you want.

The 5e Players Handbook explicitly mentions these "other elves" by name.

The high elf is the sun elf, and requires Intelligence +2 to make this true. Arguably because of elf flavor and 4e, it might also be Charisma +2.

You should anticipate that there will be those who think that's a straight-jacket of stereotype that ruins the experience because they want a Sun Elf that's a total beast and needs a +2 Str else all is lost because the evil overlords hate their fun.

That doesnt bother me.

If 5e supports the Intelligence +2 sun elf and other kinds of high elf, and then says, do what you want, and player uses this freedom to build a Strength +2 sun elf − well that is D&D working as intended.

In my setting, the sun elves are Intelligence and Charisma, mostly Bards and Wizards. The Bards are the spiritual leaders. The Wizards are the scientists.

If a player builds a character who is a Strength +2 sun elf, I would ask the player to explain how that happened and the relationship to the community. Perhaps the parents used magic to "design" their baby, to groom their child to do something in the human world? Meanwhile, the character might be an Ancients Paladin, and well regarded by the sun elf city.

 

[Bill Zebub]

So if the +2 Dex isn't enough to make them nonhuman (and I sympathize) what is? Because pointy ears, darkvision and trance aren't going to cut it for me.

I an always tell elves from variant humans because in taverns the elves order wine and the humans order ale.