D&D 5E Ability Score Increases (I've changed my mind.)

[Maxperson]

Well, grace can be lots of things. Including charisma. But I looked up the definition of the Dexterity attribute (PHB 173) and it says only "agility". No mention of grace.

Common usage of words applies in 5e and if you look up what grace means, it means refined movements, which is covered under dex ability checks. Sleight of Hand, Acrobatics and more all take refined movements to accomplish.

Meanwhile, Dwarves get a whole sub-heading that says "Long Memory", and Intelligence is defined as "reasoning and memory", yet they don't get an Intelligence ASI. Do you find that non-sensical? (If so, then I will give you points for consistency.)

Long memory just means that they hold onto things and remember major events. It's not some super memory ability. They don't have eidetic memory.

 

[Bill Zebub]

Common usage of words applies in 5e and if you look up what grace means, it means refined movements, which is covered under dex ability checks. Sleight of Hand, Acrobatics and more all take refined movements to accomplish.

Long memory just means that they hold onto things and remember major events. It's not some super memory ability. They don't have eidetic memory.

Ok.

 

[Malmuria]

Long memory just means that they hold onto things and remember major events. It's not some super memory ability. They don't have eidetic memory.

This sounds like they have memory that is basically human but applied to a longer life span. Isn't your goal to make elves/dwarves seem more alien and other? In that case you might want to play up the notion that memory is a special and unique way of approaching the world (that could take many forms; doesn't have to be asi).

As I write that I recall (pun intended) that MtoF does exactly this in the lore section for elves. From p 40:

An Elf's memory of such events is likely more accurate than a well-researched historian's account, because the elf can revisit the memory over and over during trance, fixing it more firmly in mind each time.

Would be nice if there could be some mechanic attached to this. Perhaps: after a long rest (trance) an elf has advantage on a history check related to an event that happened in their lifetime.

 

[Maxperson]

This sounds like they have memory that is basically human but applied to a longer life span. Isn't your goal to make elves/dwarves seem more alien and other? In that case you might want to play up the notion that memory is a special and unique way of approaching the world (that could take many forms; doesn't have to be asi).

A long memory(especially for dwarves) is basically an event that happens, say elves attack a dwarven outpost, and it's something the dwarves brood on for the next 1000 years. They tell stories of it to their kids and grandkids, and when those elves need a special mineral for the elixir to save their village from a plague, the dwarves remind them of that outpost and tell them to go stuff it. It's not an intelligence boost that lets them remember what they had for breakfast on that day 200 years ago.

As I write that I recall (pun intended) that MtoF does exactly this in the lore section for elves. From p 40:



Would be nice if there could be some mechanic attached to this. Perhaps: after a long rest (trance) an elf has advantage on a history check related to an event that happened in their lifetime.

And that they were personally a part of. I'm going to have to remember that for game instances where the players are forgetful, but have an elf that trances. It would be a cool way to remind the players of what they have forgotten.

 

[LadyElect]

Common usage of words applies in 5e and if you look up what grace means, it means refined movements, which is covered under dex ability checks. Sleight of Hand, Acrobatics and more all take refined movements to accomplish.

I don't disagree with your end result here as a potentiality, but by that same token I think you are limiting "what grace means" since common usage certainly extends to culture and aesthetic in addition to movement. The PHB details the Elf subheading Slender and Graceful with a focus on their visual appearance and social class, and the Haughty but Gracious block defines their disposition toward others. I'd think both of those have a strong argument leading to Charisma being a strength, but it isn't even the secondary bonus for High or Wood Elf.

The PHB even specifically uses graceful as a term when explaining Charisma under character creation:

A character with high Charisma exudes confidence, which is usually mixed with a graceful or intimidating presence. A character with a low Charisma might come across as abrasive, inarticulate, or timid.

 

[Bill Zebub]

This sounds like they have memory that is basically human but applied to a longer life span. Isn't your goal to make elves/dwarves seem more alien and other? In that case you might want to play up the notion that memory is a special and unique way of approaching the world (that could take many forms; doesn't have to be asi).

Agreed. And while representing memory with a higher Int score would be perfectly logical, it would also be...boring. I'd much rather see a cleverly designed racial ability that specifically applied to memory.

And the same with Dexterity: three races (elves, halflings, aarakocra) all have their agility (grace) represented as +2 Dexterity. Which is fine (sorta) but leaves us with no differentiation. They are all dextrous in exactly the same way? I think it would be more fun to have active special abilities that bring their uniquness to life, and that get intentionally used in specific situations, instead of just a passive +1 applied to all Dexterity rolls, all the time.

 

[Maxperson]

Agreed. And while representing memory with a higher Int score would be perfectly logical, it would also be...boring. I'd much rather see a cleverly designed racial ability that specifically applied to memory.

And the same with Dexterity: three races (elves, halflings, aarakocra) all have their agility (grace) represented as +2 Dexterity. Which is fine (sorta) but leaves us with no differentiation. They are all dextrous in exactly the same way? I think it would be more fun to have active special abilities that bring their uniquness to life, and that get intentionally used in specific situations, instead of just a passive +1 applied to all Dexterity rolls, all the time.

And both is even better. Having no bonus provides zero reason for them to have any dexterous abilities. They are no more graceful/dexterous than a tortle. Getting the +2, thereby gaining a reason to have special active abilities that differentiate them is a far better way.

 

[Chaosmancer]

Do you think that would require D&D to have a higher level of granularity?

I think that the +2s and such were seen to work because they were broad strokes, to illustrate things for a game which tends to deal in broad strokes.

In other games, you might have traits like "high manual dexterity," "flexibility," and "perfect balance" which deal with different aspects of being dexterous.

I don't think it would require granularity. I know one of the last times we were having this discussion is was literally just more abilities. Like elves getting a reaction move if an enemy tried to attack them for a higher level feat.

Things that instead of being a bonus to the ability scores actually demonstrated a real difference between what they could do. Because anyone could have an 18, 20 or if you do caps 22 Dex, but only elves get access to these feats and abilities. Whatever they would end up being

 

[Chaosmancer]

The real world helps provide our understanding of in game issues like evil and murder, but in game murders don't have connection with any instance of real world evil or murder. You don't get to cite similarities and say, well that's bad because X happened in the real world and the language is similar. There's simply no connection to X.

... except you are saying the language is similar, which means the events are similar. Those are connections.

What stat is lucky?

Not the point. You are saying it doesn't make sense for a dex feat to be given to a race with no dex bonus. But we can give the Lucky feat to races that aren't known to be lucky, and that isn't nonsensical.

So, why would it be nonsensical to give a race known for dexterity and grace feats to amplify that instead of a dex bonus? Again, you make a claim, but when I show something similar you want to rely on it not being identical to act like it isn't a critique of your claim.

 

[Chaosmancer]

Because my description has nothing whatsovever to do with that murder. Nada. Zip. Zilch. Nein!

Except for being the same thing, the murder of a child by their caretaker. That's a connection, that's "something to do with it"

Okay. It happens in real life. So what.

So there is a connection. There is a reference. You want to claim that child murder has nothing to do with child murder just because one is fake. But that isn't how language or ideas work.

At best you've only proven your own strawmen wrong. I've presented no theory. If you're tilting at theories, they are of your own devising.

So you never made the claim that I can literally quote you saying?

You are. If every race gets the same racial bonuses, they are basically one race with varied looks and some differing abilities. Just like, you know, real world humans as you've pointed out.

Someone hacked your account to say this? Stole your identity?

What is this then, idle market speculation?