Pathfinder 1E ACTUAL Evil Campaign

[ObjectivePerspective]

Hello all, I'm new to the forum. I'm running an evil campaign in Pathfinder. I've gone out searching for evil campaign source material and sadly I have found NONE. Zero, zilch. What I HAVE found is neutral and good campaign material with the picture of a devil on the cover and the word "evil" scribbled over where "hero" has been scratched out. I have the Book of Vile Darkness and it's a joke. I've combed Thief and Rogue guides in both 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th edition D&D and none of them touch on what evil characters would actually do. So, I'm reaching out into the forums to see if I can find some fresh ideas and possibly something I've missed. The only source material I've found is on slavery. So I'm good there. I'm lacking in DRUGS (real drugs that destroy lives and make ordinary people do disgusting things in back alleys just to get a fix, not the neat sounding drugs that act like potions with side effects in the BVD), PROSTITUTION (actually found thieves guild rules on running a dancing hall....a dancing hall??) CORRUPTION (turning that LG hero into one of your lackies). I'm set on boring things like robbery, forgery, blackmail, extortion, assassination...these are all things good parties do.

 

[MerricB]

Try looking for the Way of the Wicked adventure path from Fire Mountain Games.

 

[ObjectivePerspective]

Try looking for the Way of the Wicked adventure path from Fire Mountain Games.

Thanks, had a look, but it's more of the same stuff I mentioned before. Good campaign with Evil copypasted on top. I read about the Kingdom of AMN in the Forgotten Realms. Apparently everything the party is interested in doing goes on there, but I can't find any rules on it. If I have to make it up, I'll make it up...I just find it shocking that in hundreds of books, there is nothing on it whatsoever.

 

[Ahnehnois]

First, I'm not entirely clear on what your goal is. Why are you so set on evil? How are you defining it? In what way is the material you describe not meeting that definition? What do your players think about evil gaming?

For instance, I find it difficult to see drugs or prostitution as morally indefensible; a drug is rather like a weapon in that it can be used for good or ill (virtually every illegal drug has at least debatably legitimate medical or religious applications, and the concept of regulating substances of abuse is a modern one that varies greatly by culture), and prostitution, while often abusive in nature, can be a legitimate profession (the prostitutes in Firefly/Serenity hardly seem evil, for example).

Second, a lot of the things you're getting at aren't really things you would find in a rulebook. If you want to try turning a character evil or having evil activities in the world, just do it. You don't need rpg rules to cover that kind of material and more than you need rules to describe virtue or reason. I don't see a set of "good" rules that clearly mirror what you seem to be looking for in evil game material. Research real-life source material directly. That's my #1 recommendation.

That being said, I will say I'm with you on the drug thing, and I'm not sure what to do about it. It would be really interesting to have historically and scientifically accurate versions of certain drugs in the game (think about the role of opium in history) but the existing d20 rules structure is ill-equipped to do that and I'm not aware on any really strong takes on the subject. I do think that if you want an addict PC the player really needs to commit to it and play out the addiction, which can be done well.

 

[Connorsrpg]

I am just wondering whether you have the 3.0 BVD or the 4E one. (Was there a 4E one)?

As I thought the 3.0 one by Monte Cook was very good. There is some discussion on evil PCs, campaigns, etc.

It was one of my favourites actually and the only thing I didn't like was the fact it came out before 3.5 and all the monsters had to be redone. But as a sourcebook I liked it. Is this the one you don't like?

Edit: Did the 2E blue DM book 'of Villains'? have any of this? or the Necromancer book from the same line? I recall it having some ideas for evil spellcasters at least.

 

[ObjectivePerspective]

There are no guidelines for running a drug trade in a city for example. There are tables and modifiers and all kinds of goodies for stuff like extortion, black mail and pick pocketing, but nothing on drugs. Same goes for prostitution. The party wants to get people addicted to drugs, turn them into prostitutes as well as sell the drug surplus that they make.

 

[ObjectivePerspective]

3rd Edition Book of Vile Darkness. It's a neat book, but Evil...meh. It does well on the romantic notion of evil...toothy maw'd demons standing on piles of corpses...but I don't need a book to tell me how to do that. That's straight out of the monster manual. I need to know just how many torture checks with what other skills or whatever it takes to turn a paladin into a baby killer. I need to know just how much of what kind of drug will it take to get the mayor's wife to open the city gates to the monsters outside...stuff like that.

 

[Obryn]

...why on earth would you need such specific, detailed rules for that?

 

[Unwise]

Personally, if I searched the internet and came to the conclusion "I just can't find enough evil stuff here" I would take a long hard look at myself.

Are you really upset that there are no rules out there for better managing systematic rape?

There are plenty of books one could recommend that could help someone who was interested in that, but they won't be the ones you are looking for.

 

[ObjectivePerspective]

Personally, if I searched the internet and came to the conclusion "I just can't find enough evil stuff here" I would take a long hard look at myself.

Are you really upset that there are no rules out there for better managing systematic rape?

There are plenty of books one could recommend that could help someone who was interested in that, but they won't be the ones you are looking for.

LOL! Fair enough. I kinda figured it was the taboo subjects that were leading me into dead ends (never said I needed rules for rape though). I have a very confident, headstrong group that I DM for and they are pretty fearless as far as what subjects they are willing to lay bare. So when the idea came up to be evil, they decided they were going to do it 100%. The two women in my group are the ones that brought up the prostitution ring lol. Seriously though. Can you blame me for being disappointed when they've got detailed rules on the Assassin class, a profession that involves pay for murder...but they don't have a simple table reflecting the price rates for different races in the biz of prostitution? There are rules on torture in the BVD, but nothing on one of its logical conclusions: brainwashing/corruption.