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AD&D 1st edition and 2nd edition differences?

billd91

Not your screen monkey (he/him) 🇺🇦🇵🇸🏳️‍⚧️
Off the top of my head:

  • Non weapon proficiencies (think skills), originally from Oriental Adventures, now core
  • Numerous rules from 1e dropped, including psionics (later added back in totally different system), grappling (also replaced by a totally different system), weapon speed factors and modifiers versus armour.

Technically, non-weapon proficiencies were listed as optional, but most people did play with those options.

Weapon speed factors did not go away. In fact, they make up an important element of one of the initiative options in 2e.

For the most part, the games can be used together with few seams being noticed. Other differences I would point out:

  • Spell damage gets its first level-based caps (5 dice for 1st level spells, 10 dice for 3rd, etc). So fireball caps out at 10d6, magic missile at 5d4+5.
  • The ranger gets a major overhaul but not really a favorable one. Consider using the 1e ranger.
  • Surprise goes through a significant revision and is put on a d10 instead of a d6 (or d8, d12, or d00 depending on the character in question).
  • The Complete Fighter's Handbook offers some nice options for style specializations and weapon group proficiencies.
  • The DMG is much more proscriptive about some elements of the game - like magic items. While they had prices in the 1e DMG, prices are dropped from the 2e one because the advice is to not have a market for magic items. Most of us still used our 1e DMG's price lists (which, in some cases, are better balanced than the 3e version).
  • The wargame holdover scales for movement and range (expressed in inches) and differences between indoor and outdoor scales is gone in 2e.
  • Magic resistance is a straight % chance in 2e and not a sliding amount indexed on an 11th level caster.
 

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Huw

First Post
Specialized priests are actually, in general, much weaker than standard clerics.

I was thinking of the various Forgotten Realms speciality priests, but those came out after a few years of power-creep. I do remember several of the Greyhawk ones being rather weak.
 


Try this on for size:

1. Ability score tables now list scores from 1 to 25 in the PHB.
2. Ability score functions changed slightly, such as weight allowance for scores less than 10 and % chance to learn spells for scores from 10 to 16.
3. Ability scores of 5 or lower no longer limits class selection.
4. Open doors changed from a d6 to a d20.
5. Intelligence no longer affects the minimum number of spells per level for magic-users.
6. Maximum spells per level has been reduced to an optional rule.
7. Loyalty and NPC reaction changed from d% to d20.
8. Half-orcs removed.
9. Racial level limits increased and no longer based on ability scores.
10. Slow, but unlimited advancement for demi-humans is an optional rule.
11. Gnomes now receive ability score adjustments.
12. Racial ability minimum and maximums changed.
13. Demi-humans no longer begin knowing several languages.
14. Additional languages for demi-humans no longer limited by race.
15. Life expectancy of most demi-humans greatly reduced.
16. Dwarves now have a 20% chance for all magic items not specifically suited to their class to fail instead of a 20% chance of failure for rings only.
17. Dwarves’ underground skills have slightly different probabilites.
18. The resurrection spell now affects elves, and raise dead may affect elves at the DM’s option.
19. Gnomes now have a 20% chance for all magic items except weapons, armor, shields, illusionist items, and thief items to fail.
20. Gnomes’ underground skills have slightly different probabilities.
21. Halflings now receive a +1 to their attack rolls when using thrown weapons or slings.
22. Halflings no longer have the 20% chance for magic rings to fail when they use them.
23. Experience point requirements for classes changed, most notable is the paladin.
24. Weapons and armor permissible to some classes changed slightly.
25. Class prime requisite ability scores changed.
26. Classes were divided into four main groups (warrior, priest, wizard, rogue), no sub-classes exist.
27. Class titles removed.
28. Assassin, barbarian, cavalier, and monk classes were removed.
29. Bard and ranger classes changed entirely.
30. Fighters no longer make a number of attacks equal to their level when fighting enemies with less than one hit die.
31. Weapon specialization changed for bows.
32. The monthly income for establishing a stronghold was removed.
33. Paladins now receive four weapon proficiencies at 1st level and gain one every 3 levels (instead of every 2 levels as in the UA).
34. Magic-users now called mages.
35. Mages, illusionists, and other specialist wizards share the same experience, hit die, and spell progression tables.
36. Mages only receive hit dice up to level 10 instead of level 11.
37. Mages no longer have the ability to construct strongholds.
38. Illusionists no longer are a separate class, but are now specialist wizards.
39. Illusionists no longer have their own spell list.
40. Cleric turn undead table changed and included in the PHB instead of the DMG.
41. Druids are no longer a separate class, but are now priests of a specific mythos.
42. Druids no longer have their own spell list.
43. Druids no longer have a class level limit.
44. Thieves now allocate a number of percentage points to each skill at 1st level and with each additional level increase to their various skills instead of having each skill increase by the same amount for all thieves.
45. The pick pockets skill functions differently.
46. The open locks skill functions differently.
47. Thieves can now remain hidden in the shadows while making very small, slow movements; and a hidden thief is equally hidden from creatures with or without infravision.
48. Allowed multi-class combinations changed slightly.
49. Half-elven multi-classed clerics no longer require a minimum wisdom of 13.
50. Multi-classed wizards cannot cast spells while wearing armor.
51. Multi-classed priests are still restricted to priest weapons.
52. “Dual-classed” characters may eventually have up to four classes.
53. “Dual-classed” characters may only select one class from each class group.
54. Alignment definitions changed.
55. A change in alignment now doubles the amount of experience needed to reach the next level instead of causing a loss of a level.
56. Additional weapon proficiencies for level advancement now start counting from 1st level instead of including 1st level.
57. Non-weapon proficiencies*.
58. Silver pieces are now 1/10th of a gold.
59. Starting funds for a mage is now 1d4+1 instead of 2d4.
60. Priests may not retain any starting funds after purchasing initial equipment.
61. Prices for various items, including weapons and armor changed.
62. Some new items added.
63. Field plate and full plate no longer reduce damage.
64. Weapon vs. AC type replaced with weapon type vs. armor and made optional.
65. Missile weapon range now given in tens of yards for all situations.
66. Encumbrance now calculated off of actual weight and does not include bulk.
67. Spell components made optional.
68. Spell lists were changed, all wizards now use the same spell list. Priest spells are divided into spheres. Clerics and druids use the same list.
69. Some individual spells have changed.
70. Awarding experience points changed.
71. Training reduced to an optional rule.
72. A natural roll of 20 is always a hit, regardless of the AC of the target.
73. THAC0 for thieves and magic-users changed and is unlimited in progression.
74. Segments are removed from the combat round.
75. Initiative is changed.
76. Group initiative and individual initiative optional rules.
77. Characters and creatures with multiple attacks do not automatically attack first in the round.
78. Weapon speed now affects initiative as an optional rule.
79. Two weapon fighting is only available to warriors and rogues.
80. Non-lethal combat rules changed.
81. Parrying rules changed and reduced to optional.
82. Some saving throws now have a priority over others.
83. Magic resistance no longer affected by caster level.
84. Not all monster poisons are lethal anymore.
85. Characters now gain 3 h.p. per day of bed rest instead of 1.
86. Characters can now die if they suffer 50 points of damage from one attack, regardless of their hit point total, if they fail to make a save vs. death.
87. Surprise uses a d10 instead of d6, and it represents one full round of surprise instead of a variable number of segments. Spells cannot be cast during the surprise round.
88. Surprised characters lose their dexterity bonus to AC.
89. Henchmen are now special NPCs that the DM introduces into the group and are friends and allies but not “employees” of PCs. There is no restriction on the levels of henchmen acquired.
90. The illumination radius of torches, magic weapons, and other items is reduced.
91. Halflings’ base movement changed from 9” to 6”.
92. Jogging and running optional rules added.
93. All characters have a 40% chance to climb walls.
94. Climbing modifiers changed.
 


Nikosandros

Golden Procrastinator
I was thinking of the various Forgotten Realms speciality priests, but those came out after a few years of power-creep. I do remember several of the Greyhawk ones being rather weak.
Yes, the Forgotten Realms ones were rather powerful. I was thinking manly about those in the Complete Priest's Handbook.
 


Not to derail the thread, but was there a similar change between the older B/X sets and the later RC, or was it more gradual? I never looked at the RC, and dropped out of D&D during the 1e and B/X days. If I were to ever play any of the older versions again, the B/X is certainly the most up my alley. But I don't know how well the RC maintained the same feel and mechanics as the B/X boxes.
 



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