D&D 5E After 2 years the 5E PHB remains one of the best selling books on Amazon

[darjr]

Thanks for the podcast link. It's worth quite a lot.

This isn't sarcasm. Just FYI. Listening to it now.

 

[seebs]

I have heard it suggested that first we decide something and then we look for a reason to justify why we have decided.

That's often the case, yeah. But if people like a thing, they like it.

 

[Hussar]

No, the gameworld never gave the impression of exclusion, merely it never felt the need to spell out the inclusion. D&D is a game where you can pretend to be an elf, a half-devil, a dragon-man, a servant of Thor, a cultist of Cthulhu, or any number of fantastical archetypes. However, it doesn't let you be gay or trans or anything other that CIS because it lacked a paragraph saying so before 2014?

/snip

Swimming way upthread. Sorry, I'm slow.

The difference here being that there are actual examples, either in text or in images, of EVERY one of those characters and archetypes. Not only can you play a half devil, to use that example, but, there are fifteen different images of what you look like, complete write-ups detailing your history in the game world and how you fit into it. Even, in some editions, suggestions for naming conventions.

Now, you can cue the argument over how big your horns and tail should be, but, even then, you have examples of both in text and in images.

But nowhere, for a very long time, were there any images of PC's of color. I remember back when the first D&D movie came out and it had a *gasp* black elf and this was actually an issue. People actually commented on this. Elves can't be black after all. Only evil elves are black... oops... ummm... err.. I guess it's ok to have a black elf... went the conversation.

For a very long time THIS:

was the face of D&D. Notice what's missing?

 

[Hussar]

I think it has some influence, but hardly what you would call a game changer, more a gradual and logical progression as more people from minority groups move into positions of influence.



No, but there is a difference between encouraging (via more inclusive art work and the like), catering to your existing audience (art work that reflects the European roots of the game) and explicitly discouraging people from playing which I've not seen occur in any published material, or at any game table I've sat at or convention I've attended.

Would you say Luke Cage or Spike Lee movies explicitly discourages white audiences from watching?

I'm sorry, but, give me a break. Ok, you've got Luke Cage. Fair enough. Let's just stick with Netflix Marvel for a second. We've had two seasons of Daredevil, Jessica Jones, now Luke Cage. So, basically, we've got twice the white material as black. On network TV it's even worse. There's a reason people complained about shows like Friends and whatnot. Hour after hour after hour of nothing but majority white cast, day after day, week after week, year after year.

So, your response to that is, well, heck, a tiny minority of shows aren't showing majority white casts, and they don't seem to be driving away white viewers, so, what's the problem here? Those other people are just too sensitive? Seriously?

You don't NEED to explicitly exclude groups to exclude them is the point that people are trying to drive home here.

 

[Shasarak]

was the face of D&D. Notice what's missing?

Flint Fireforge. Man the 80s were just so Dwarfist.

 

[Hussar]

Flint Fireforge. Man the 80s were just so Dwarfist.

Umm thats flint beside river wind.

But sure thanks for illustrating the point so nicely.

Put it another way. What named spells are named for female characters in any phb?

Name three iconic DND characters of colour. Outside of Drizzt I suppose.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Umm thats flint beside river wind.

But sure thanks for illustrating the point so nicely.

Put it another way. What named spells are named for female characters in any phb?

Name three iconic DND characters of colour. Outside of Drizzt I suppose.

Tasha's Hideous Laughter?

Of course, it would be a horrifying mind control spell...

That's all I got. It's basically like having one First Nations guy in the franchise, and he's a stoic drunk who hits women.

 

[Shasarak]

Umm thats flint beside river wind.

Ah, hiding beside Tasselhoff of course. Added in as an after thought I bet.

Name three iconic DND characters of colour. Outside of Drizzt I suppose.

Ah, got this one: Kyra, Sajan and Seelah. Maybe Lini if your colour is green but she is a Gnome so that does not really count in this humanocentric world.

 

[Hussar]

Ah, hiding beside Tasselhoff of course. Added in as an after thought I bet.



Ah, got this one: Kyra, Sajan and Seelah. Maybe Lini if your colour is green but she is a Gnome so that does not really count in this humanocentric world.

Never heard of any of them.

Ahh edit to add. I did say DND. Pathfinder is cheating.

 

[Shasarak]

Never heard of any of them.

So you want coloured characters and then dont even remember them when they are given to you?

And that is why you see so many white people on TV.