D&D 5E After 2 years the 5E PHB remains one of the best selling books on Amazon

[Hussar]

So you want coloured characters and then dont even remember them when they are given to you?

And that is why you see so many white people on TV.

Never heard of them because I don't play or follow pathfinder. Why would l know iconics from a game I've never even looked at?

Particularly when I specifically asked about DND iconics.

 

[Shasarak]

Never heard of them because I don't play or follow pathfinder. Why would l know iconics from a game I've never even looked at?

Particularly when I specifically asked about DND iconics.

Seems like a meaningless distinction to me.

 

[Hussar]

Seems like a meaningless distinction to me.

Well considering we're talking about dnd and not all rpg's I'd say that it's not a meaningless distinction. Mad props to Paizo for the efforts they are making but it does rather highlight my point considering those iconics you've touted are less than ten years old.

Kinda the point really.

 

[Shasarak]

Well considering we're talking about dnd and not all rpg's I'd say that it's not a meaningless distinction. Mad props to Paizo for the efforts they are making but it does rather highlight my point considering those iconics you've touted are less than ten years old.

Kinda the point really.

OK, so you want characters "of colour" that are more then 10 years old that must be some kind of DnD creation that fits a specific unknown criteria and you must have heard of them to qualify?

Akabar Bel Akash who comes from the novel Azure Bonds published in 1988.

Daryth who comes from the Moonshae Isles novels published in 1987

and if 3e DnD qualifies as DnD maybe one from the Players Handbook: Ember the "iconic" Monk published in 2000.

Not sure if they are famous enough for you to know who they are though.

 

[Hussar]

Yup. Those do. Nice to see those main characters making an appearance.

 

[Jester David]

Would you say Luke Cage or Spike Lee movies explicitly discourages white audiences from watching?

There are a lot of people complaining that Luke Cage is "too black". So people are feeling excluded by not being represented (by the one superhero property that isn't led by a white character).

It's part of the same problem that the rest of western media is dealing with.
It's popping up in movies, television, and video games. But it's easier for D&D to deal with and include representation since an investment of a hundred of million dollars is not riding on the product being a hit. D&D can go out on a limb.

 

[Jester David]

Seems like a meaningless distinction to me.

I'm with Hussar on this. Bringing up the work of another company for a semi-related game is not relevant to the discussion. Why not include 13th Age or Lamentations of the Flame Princess?

OK, so you want characters "of colour" that are more then 10 years old that must be some kind of DnD creation that fits a specific unknown criteria and you must have heard of them to qualify?

Akabar Bel Akash who comes from the novel Azure Bonds published in 1988.

Daryth who comes from the Moonshae Isles novels published in 1987

and if 3e DnD qualifies as DnD maybe one from the Players Handbook: Ember the "iconic" Monk published in 2000.

Not sure if they are famous enough for you to know who they are though.

The iconic monk is a good example. The others are pretty obscure, not even being the star of their own book.

The best I can offer though is Maquesta Kar-Thon from Dragonlance.

 

[Shasarak]

I'm with Hussar on this. Bringing up the work of another company for a semi-related game is not relevant to the discussion. Why not include 13th Age or Lamentations of the Flame Princess?

That is a valid question. Now of the three which ones are completely compatible with any of the DnD rules systems?

Because we are talking about DnD products, right? Or has the goal post shifted to WotC products? Or are they too new and that means we should talk about only TSR products?

If you really want to find "people of colour" in RPG products then there are many companies doing much better then just adding a paragraph buried deep in the middle of their product.

The iconic monk is a good example. The others are pretty obscure, not even being the star of their own book.

The best I can offer though is Maquesta Kar-Thon from Dragonlance.

Akabar Bel Akash and Daryth are one of the main characters in their respective novels. Azure Bonds was a pretty good selling novel at the time with a good cRPG and Moonshae Isles was one of the first DnD novels so that is pretty iconic in its own right.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Ember is the only one I can remember ever reading or hearing about.

I wish 5e had, a) better art/more good art in the phb*. IMO, the last year of 4e products were about the peak of DnD art in the last decade or so.
2) Named Iconic characters in the phb.

*all due respect to the artists, there is a lot of bad, and some of it is art direction. By which I mean Halflings. But also a few other race/class images are just...not great.

There was a discussion like this on the wotc forums a few years ago, where some folks tallied up images of different types, and the data showed that 4e was more inclusive in terms of art, by a wide margin, than any other edition. I'd like that to continue, and expand to include adventure NPC families of more diverse makeups.

Im still super confused how a non DnD product is relevant? Inclusion isn't a mechanical system issue. Paizo being on the ball in their core book has no relevance outside of camparing DnD to things which aren't DnD.

Also, pretty sure the point of pointing out that he characters are fairly new is to drive home the fact that inclusion is improving, and didn't used to be very good.

 

[Jester David]

That is a valid question. Now of the three which ones are completely compatible with any of the DnD rules systems?

While compatible, Paizo is still it's own game. Just because something is compatible doesn't mean they're the same. That's like saying someone who publishes games playable on a PlayStation is the same as Sony.
Sure, Pathfinder is largely the same. But you could make similar claims regarding the d20 Castles & Crusades. Or Iron Heroes, which has the added wrinkle that Mike Mearls worked on it.

Because we are talking about DnD products, right? Or has the goal post shifted to WotC products? Or are they too new and that means we should talk about only TSR products?

I think it's valid to almost discuss TSR and WotC separately. Completely different management. And TSR was a much more conservative company.

If you really want to find "people of colour" in RPG products then there are many companies doing much better then just adding a paragraph buried deep in the middle of their product.

It probably wouldn't be hard.

Akabar Bel Akash and Daryth are one of the main characters in their respective novels. Azure Bonds was a pretty good selling novel at the time with a good cRPG and Moonshae Isles was one of the first DnD novels so that is pretty iconic in its own right.

Bel Akash seems to be secondary character in Azure Bonds. The sidekick to the protagonist. Daryth isn't mentioned in either the Wikipedia or FRwiki entry on Darkwalker on Moonshae. Both seem to be a stretch to be called "iconic". Can't find a decent picture of either one.