D&D 5E After 2 years the 5E PHB remains one of the best selling books on Amazon

[Imaro]

D&D is a brand the way Frisbee is a brand. If I point to a pile of circular plastic throwing disks and say "Grab a frisbee, let's play!" are you really going to quibble that nothing in the pile is actually made by Wham-O?

So I asked this earlier... if thats the case where does it stop when discussing D&D... is just Pathfinder included? All retro-clones and osr derivatives? All d20 games? Any game that uses a d20? All roleplaying games? Anything any particular person decides is D&D? Whats the line if we're discussing D&D specifically.

 

[Imaro]

Do you also get annoyed when people ask for a Coke when they actually want a Sprite?

I am sure you have many important factors.

What?

 

[Imaro]

Yes, and i explicitely said that inclusivity matters and is a good thing. But, when speaking about why 5e is more successful than PF, or other games nowadays, I think inclusivity is not the main reason.

I think inclusivity is contributing more to the diversification of the community and to a lesser extent to the overall size of the community, but it's contributing to that too.

Let me ask you this... does that diversification include an increase in the number of players? Are those players gravitating towards games that are more inclusive like D&D 5e vs. those that are less... say like many of the retro-clones? Especially with the upswing in awareness around D&D.

I'm bringing up retro-clones because I just noticed Swords and Wizardry is now Kickstarting a more diverse edition with the exact same rules. Now this is admittedly just one company but I'm wondering if they aren't bringing anything new to the D&D family as far as diversity is concerned and inclusiveness isn't a main reason (I also don't believe it's the only reason, though I do think aome posters are vastly underestimating the effect it can have on minority gamers)... why kickstart this new edition with a focus around inclusiveness when it would be cheaper to just re-publish the old version?? I can only guess because they have some kind of data that points to it being a big enough factor in 5e's success that they are willing to push it as an agenda of their newest printing.

 

[ShinHakkaider]

What?

Just walk away man. Your sanity is waaaaaay more important than this. Just Walk away...

 

[jasper]

Yes, DnD iconics. What are you confused about exactly?

Shasarak some of us DO NOT Play Pathfinder. So Pathfinder not = D&D. The poster asked for D&D icons not the spinoff. To clear it up using Star Trek. the Poster asked Star Trek the original series not the cartoon, not the movies, not the one with Johnny Luke Peecard and his pale robot, not the one with the bald dude, the woman captain or the leaper captain.

 

[evileeyore]

So I asked this earlier... if thats the case where does it stop when discussing D&D... is just Pathfinder included? All retro-clones and osr derivatives? All d20 games? Any game that uses a d20? All roleplaying games? Anything any particular person decides is D&D? Whats the line if we're discussing D&D specifically.

For me?

D&D is this: 1 - A rules set, as in "classes, levels, 6 stats, d20",etc; 2 - A play style which is best summed as "Orc & Pie"* or "Dungeon Fantasy"...

And 2 is slightly more important than 1, as in I play "D&D" using GURPS (ala GURPS' Dungeon Fantasy line) and FATE and whatever (I wrote up a Dungeon Fantasy 'conversion' using Shadowrun rules once for a group that preferred to use those rules).



* I say "Orc and Pie" when I'm being derogatory (even though I know, people do prefer that old school style) and Dungeon Fantasy when I'm being generous (I dislike the style personally). I know, you can run other things using D&D, just as you can run "Old School Dungeon Crawls" using GURPS, but the rules support what they support.

 

[evileeyore]

Shasarak some of us DO NOT Play Pathfinder. So Pathfinder not = D&D. The poster asked for D&D icons not the spinoff.

So... do you* play every edition of D&D? Do they stop being D&D just because you aren't playing them?

Keep in mind I remember a time when 4e was decried as Not D&D by a large group in this forum.



* The inclusive or royal 'you'.

 

[jayoungr]

Are there any examples of games that have made the attempt to be more inclusive than what was out at the time that have failed?

Hmm ... how successful was Blue Rose at the time it first came out? I ask because that's the only one I can think of that I've heard negative comments about. Though, it's getting a second edition, so "failed" is a relative term, I guess.

 

[Imaro]

For me?

D&D is this: 1 - A rules set, as in "classes, levels, 6 stats, d20",etc; 2 - A play style which is best summed as "Orc & Pie"* or "Dungeon Fantasy"...

And 2 is slightly more important than 1, as in I play "D&D" using GURPS (ala GURPS' Dungeon Fantasy line) and FATE and whatever (I wrote up a Dungeon Fantasy 'conversion' using Shadowrun rules once for a group that preferred to use those rules).



* I say "Orc and Pie" when I'm being derogatory (even though I know, people do prefer that old school style) and Dungeon Fantasy when I'm being generous (I dislike the style personally). I know, you can run other things using D&D, just as you can run "Old School Dungeon Crawls" using GURPS, but the rules support what they support.

1. Do you think the majority of people in this discussion share your outlook? And does considering anything (does this also include boardgames like Descent... it has a campaign mode now) that can be run in a dungeon crawl style as "D&D" (in other words trying to use everyone's personal opinion of what constitutes D&D) facilitate understanding in any way for this discussion? If not why would we use it?

2. Do you think games which can be played in your style from #2 are on the whole generally inclusive/diverse in so far as artwork, alternate cultures presented, language, etc.?

 

[jasper]

So... do you* play every edition of D&D? Do they stop being D&D just because you aren't playing them?

Keep in mind I remember a time when 4e was decried as Not D&D by a large group in this forum.

* The inclusive or royal 'you'.

Played 4E once, Pathfinder 3 or 4 times this year. The original question was "name non white D&D icons". Not "Name non white D&D and related work icons". Shasark is ticked that the person who posted the original question wanted only the D&D brand.