D&D 5E After 2 years the 5E PHB remains one of the best selling books on Amazon

[Ovinomancer]

Well, that's almost a response to my post.

I really don't know why I bother.... I always end up depressed at the state of the world after participating in these threads: full of ennui, losing faith in humanity & my fellow gamers.

So I guess I'm out.

Weird. I had directly responded to you for two posts prior to this one, which was about the folly of trying to define art -- a long term argument that's not going to be resolved in this thread -- and you picked this to decide that I'm the reason for losing faith in humanity? Come on, I've given much better reasons that pointing out that you can't concretely define art for that.

 

[Ovinomancer]

Sure, but I don't think anyone has done that, here.

Sure they did. JD started with a world composition argument for western media, and, when it was pointed out that no one follows that distribution of representation, he swapped to an argument about how it was okay within those cultures, but not for the Western world (which is begging the question), and when called on that, switched to an argument relying on my personal consumption habits. All the while he was still defending the original "should look like the whole world" standard for Western media.

Ideological blinkers are tough to even recognize, much less remove, but it's always worth the effort.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Sure they did. JD started with a world composition argument for western media, and, when it was pointed out that no one follows that distribution of representation, he swapped to an argument about how it was okay within those cultures, but not for the Western world (which is begging the question), and when called on that, switched to an argument relying on my personal consumption habits. All the while he was still defending the original "should look like the whole world" standard for Western media.

Ideological blinkers are tough to even recognize, much less remove, but it's always worth the effort.

JD didn't change arguments, those are all aspects of the same thing. When you brought up china and India as counter points, he pointed out that those places are different from the US, and thus different standards apply. Which is exactly right. I'd add that China has a responsibility to represent its own diversity, and not have all its media show nothing but native Chinese actors, but otherwise it's a fine argument. All jester did was clarify with more nuance. Which is exactly the correct thing to do.

 

[Ovinomancer]

JD didn't change arguments, those are all aspects of the same thing. When you brought up china and India as counter points, he pointed out that those places are different from the US, and thus different standards apply. Which is exactly right. I'd add that China has a responsibility to represent its own diversity, and not have all its media show nothing but native Chinese actors, but otherwise it's a fine argument. All jester did was clarify with more nuance. Which is exactly the correct thing to do.

Okay, I'll bite. Explain to me why the US has to based it's diversity on world cultural makeup, but China only has to do its own cultural makeup. Are we better than China, so we have to be better? What gives? Why does China get one standard but the Western world has another?

Be careful of stepping on the cultural relatively landmine.

 

[Corwin]

I wonder what percentage of D&D games played would even pass the Bechdel test?...

 

[doctorbadwolf]

I wonder what percentage of D&D games played would even pass the Bechdel test?...

Of those games which have multiple female PCs, I'd imagine 99% would. Of those games that don't, but have multiple female characters (whether NPC or PC)....I'd imagine some manner of overwhelming majority, still. Of games that tend not to feature female NPCs and habe no female pcs, I imagine vanishingly few.
[MENTION=16814]Ovinomancer[/MENTION] look, you seem really, really interested in gaining internet win points. I don't play that game. Jester and I both already addressed your question. If you actually want to know more, pm me. If you're just trying to "win", find someone else to play with.

 

[Ovinomancer]

Of those games which have multiple female PCs, I'd imagine 99% would. Of those games that don't, but have multiple female characters (whether NPC or PC)....I'd imagine some manner of overwhelming majority, still. Of games that tend not to feature female NPCs and habe no female pcs, I imagine vanishingly few.
[MENTION=16814]Ovinomancer[/MENTION] look, you seem really, really interested in gaining internet win points. I don't play that game. Jester and I both already addressed your question. If you actually want to know more, pm me. If you're just trying to "win", find someone else to play with.

I guess I am weird -- holding to consistent standards in a conversation it a weakness of mine. I apologize that you think my questions trying to understand why you think different standards for different people are acceptable is just trying to win the internet.

 

[Flexor the Mighty!]

I wonder what percentage of D&D games played would even pass the Bechdel test?...

Ours wouldn't. Only guys playing and NPC are only really there because they are about something that the PC are doing. I can't say that I'm looking to tell more stories of female NPC so I don’t see things changing.

 

[Hussar]

Okay, I'll bite. Explain to me why the US has to based it's diversity on world cultural makeup, but China only has to do its own cultural makeup. Are we better than China, so we have to be better? What gives? Why does China get one standard but the Western world has another?

Be careful of stepping on the cultural relatively landmine.

If Chinese publishers were producing D&D, in any form, you might, might have an argument here. "They don't do it so we don't" isn't exactly the most convincing argument.

Again, can anyone point to an example of a game where increased diversity has resulted in less sales? Every edition of D&D has been more diverse and has done generally better than the previous edition. Pathfinder embraced diversity and has done very well. So on and so forth. Why would you not do this? There's a reason that movies like The Avengers and Transformers are featuring more and more Chinese scenes. 1 billion potential customers is a pretty compelling argument.

Now, if we could just get translations of the game, we'd be doing much, much better.

 

[Ovinomancer]

If Chinese publishers were producing D&D, in any form, you might, might have an argument here. "They don't do it so we don't" isn't exactly the most convincing argument.

Again, can anyone point to an example of a game where increased diversity has resulted in less sales? Every edition of D&D has been more diverse and has done generally better than the previous edition. Pathfinder embraced diversity and has done very well. So on and so forth. Why would you not do this? There's a reason that movies like The Avengers and Transformers are featuring more and more Chinese scenes. 1 billion potential customers is a pretty compelling argument.

Now, if we could just get translations of the game, we'd be doing much, much better.

I'm confused by the argument that for the same standards to apply you have to be publishing D&D. But, I'll bite, again. Why should the US have D&D that has 1/6th ethnic Chinese representations, but the Chinese printing have almost all ethnic Chinese representations? Why should the US be held to the standard of reflecting the world ethnic makeup but other country's have a different standard?