Afterword

[Hussar]

Let's be honest here. Gygax wasn't exactly shy about telling DMs that they were the boss at the table. The 1e DMG is full of all sorts of advice to DMs to take charge and be pretty authoritarian at the table.

The unfortunate truth, IMO, is that many DMs read this as carte blanche to be dicks at the table.

 

[TwoSix]

What I endorse, and how I've played the game in the past and play it now is that I create a world and I invite people to take part in it. To help me grow and create that world. I think of the DM-Player relationship as inherently cooperative. I think that people who don't like this quote think of that relationship as inherently antagonistic.

There are people who believe that the DM-player relationship is cooperative (very few people don't think so, actually), but that the focus of play doesn't have to be exploring a DM's world.

 

[Iosue]

There are people who believe that the DM-player relationship is cooperative (very few people don't think so, actually), but that the focus of play doesn't have to be exploring a DM's world.

As well as people who believe that the DM-player relationship is cooperative, but that off-loading some of the resolution procedures to the players, or to the rules themselves, makes for an easier and more enjoyable game. I am not one of those people, but I understand and respect their particular play preferences.

 

[n00bdragon]

All I did was post the words of E. Gary Gygax. I'm not imposing anything.

Nice appeal to authority you got there, but just because Gary Gygax said it doesn't mean it can't be disputed. I could fill a truck with all the stuff he wrote down that would offend most gamers today.

 

[Umbran]

I know what Gygax had in mind, but I think even in 1979 that was probably a minority way of playing, and within a year or two, when Moldvay Basic came out, I think that it was cetainly a minority way of playing.

I'm not so sure it was.

Again, context matters. It seems odd to have to mention that Gygax was writing back in the time before the Internet was a major mode of communication. Now, 30+ years after the fact, as we read boards like these we hear how people were playing back then. Gary, at the time, didn't have that - we have huge amounts of anecdotal information that Gary didn't have. Let us not critique him for failing to be a mass-telepath.

Moreover - whether Gary's style was the majority or minority style has little to do with whether his advice contained useful bits for GMs of the time, or for GMs of today.

 

[Charles Wright]

Nice appeal to authority you got there, but just because Gary Gygax said it doesn't mean it can't be disputed. I could fill a truck with all the stuff he wrote down that would offend most gamers today.

Out of context it's an appeal to authority, yes, but I was also being snarky because the initial response was snarky.

My big take away from that quote has always been "don't let the rules get in the way of having fun".

 

[Reynard]

My big take away from that quote has always been "don't let the rules get in the way of having fun".

For as often as folks like to point at times when EGG seemed authoritarian, there are actually a lot of points in the DMG where he expressly states that rules or die rolls should not get in the way of fun. What i think he was mostly trying to teach new DMs was that often the things that players want for their characters can destroy a campaign. This was, for EGG, I imagine quite hard earned knowledge he was trying to impart upon the masses of DMs he was creating with AD&D. He knew they were not wargamers who had folded into the hobby of role-playing -- they were, by and large, young people who discovered AD&D first and may never be wargamers. Certainly, EGG had a certain vision of what kind of milieu AD&D was intended to support and he offered advice against moving too far from that (monstrous races comes to mind) but he spent much more time and energy advising against giving too much treasure or making life too easy on PCs, because he knew, I think, that some players have a tendency to be able to work the game, the system and even the DM to their advantage and for some players, their fun is built on everyone else's ruin.

 

[ExploderWizard]

Certainly, EGG had a certain vision of what kind of milieu AD&D was intended to support and he offered advice against moving too far from that (monstrous races comes to mind) but he spent much more time and energy advising against giving too much treasure or making life too easy on PCs, because he knew, I think, that some players have a tendency to be able to work the game, the system and even the DM to their advantage and for some players, their fun is built on everyone else's ruin.

I WON DUNGEONS & DRAGONS....AND IT WAS ADVANCED!!!

Yes. Most of this advice was aimed at keeping the game enjoyable for all and not letting an asshat like Pierce run amok and ruin everyone's fun.

 

[Charles Wright]

Pierce?

 

[Reynard]

Pierce?

From the Advanced Dungeons and Dragons episode of Community. Great stuff.