AI is stealing writers’ words and jobs…

[Jfdlsjfd]

People who have honed their creative abilities should be able to make a living off of those talents.

Maybe, but it seems that most of the world chose a free market economy, where one's ability to make a living isn't depending on the effort one had put out. If I spend 20 years learning to practice law, I won't be making any money, while someone who has a knack for it and became a lawyer quickly can. In general, unfortunately, how long and how hard it is to do something isn't a factor in one's money-making ability. Actually it's the contrary, being able to learn how to do something easily is often the key to living off better. Coalmakers where replaced with coalminers. Less effort needed once the tools were available to do massive and deep underground mining.

Except, this thread is about genarative-ai taking jobs, not about billions of people using gen-ai for personal uses. We are specifically talking about professional writers & artists that are being replaced by current & future gen-ai tools.

Honestly, in this thread, both paid-for, subscription based art generative AI has been criticized as well free, non profit models. Up to this point, I have seen nobody say "it's awful except for SDXL or SD3, because those aren't commercial". But maybe I missed the subtle difference.

The reality is that this will likely take a decade or more to fully resolve itself, as laws always lag behind the development of new technology.

This is a trope, but is it true? The EU (among other, it's not a singular exception) was able to adapt laws in the short time between 2017 and now, while generative AI is just starting to develop. Lawmaking may take some time, but it's not as irresponsive as is usually thought. I understand you don't like the collective choices made by the EU, but it's not like laws is lagging structurally.

In the meantime, disruption to jobs, especially creative fields are particularly effected by these changes.

Not only. Artists aren't specials. Doctors, lawyers, engineers, elderly care assistants, programmers, supermarket cashiers, taxi drivers, delivery persons, executive secretaries, everyone will be affected. It's just a question of time, and them being in denial for longer. It's not long ago that the main thing you heard about AI was "it sucks, it can't draw hands, it can't do someone eating spaghetti and so on..." I guess some (especially white-collars) jobs will be in the same "no, AI can't do acccounting, it requires someone with my skills" mood for some time.

Artists are being dumped by clients, some openly telling artists that they are not being hired because the client decided that gen-ai was good enough for them (ahem, they really meant free). That artist may not be able to pay rent now, because their commercial work is drying up.

Lots of occupations are concerned. I posted earlier about AI-generated wildlife for Hollywood, it is certainly impact those who live of capturing lions and training them for cinema. It is certainly also disrupting those whose job was to locate illegal homeless encampments and remove them (if the locating part is automated, the number of persons needed for that will drop). I suppose it's more visible with artists because they are more common on this board than lion tamers, and because it's one of the first sizable groups of persons. I'd have bet automated driving would have come first, if you had asked me two years ago, removing all need for truck and taxi drivers overnight.

Nobody cares what you do on your own with gen-ai

Some care enough to libel other with accusations of theft and lie, so I guess they do care a little.

 

[Art Waring]

stuff...

Ok, it seems like you are focusing on the smaller details, rather than the bigger picture, which is fine... If you accept that there are some details that have yet to be discussed in the conversation, such as how genarative-ai relies on child sweatshop labor.

A disturbing Nov. 15 report has revealed that child labor is being used to train artificial intelligence systems by major tech companies. Children as young as 11 are working long hours labeling data and moderating content on crowdsourcing platforms like Toloka and Appen. These platforms connect gig workers to AI companies like Google, Amazon, Microsoft, Boeing and others.

The Invisible Human Prisoners Helping To Train AI:

In the Philippines, thousands of young, unspecialized workers spend their days differentiating light poles from pedestrians in videos used to train self-driving cars, identifying celebrity pictures, and editing text snippets. How much these people are paid? No more than $6 to $10 a day. Do they have basic workers’ rights? Obviously not, since they’re hired through freelancing platforms that outsource their work to the larger AI companies. The same platforms that often hold their payments for a week seize them for any “purported violation” against which they cannot recourse or ban them if they try logging from a different device. Because your wage depends on the country you come from, so using any VPN is a surefire way to lose your job on the spot – and your life may very well be over if you end with no pay all of a sudden, if your pay was already so close to the poverty line.

Uncovering the Labor Exploitation That powers AI:

On Monday, the Washington Post published an investigation into the “digital sweatshops” of the Philippines where workers train AI models for often below minimum wage pay. In interviews with thirty-six current and former freelance workers for the company Scale AI, which has delivered services for Meta, Microsoft, OpenAI and the US Department of Defense, the Post found payments routinely delayed or canceled. “The budget for all this, I know it’s big… None of that is trickling down to us,” Paul, one of the workers, told them. As the Post wrote, “While AI is often thought of as human-free machine learning, the technology actually relies on the labor-intensive efforts of a workforce spread across much of the Global South and often subject to exploitation.”

The global south, impoverished children, displaced refugees in camps, and prisoners are all included in the labor pool that has been exploited to create your shiny gen-ai tools. How you deal with that is your choice, but personally, I wouldn't touch gen-ai tools with a ten foot pole.

Take your time reading, as there is a lot of ground to cover. I will check in tomorrow to see what you think about it.

Peace.

 

[Jfdlsjfd]

Ok, it seems like you are focusing on the smaller details,

Well, if you think that a phenomenon that will cause an upheaval in many job markets, encompassing many more than writers and painters, and prompt whole human societies to question (not necessarily amend, but at least question) their wealth-sharing equilibrium is a "detail", I don't think we have the same definition of "smaller details". But since it's "stuff" to you, I conclude that you're not interested in discussing it. Which is fine.

 

[trappedslider]

nvm

 

[trappedslider]

Someone's making money

 

[Art Waring]

Well, if you think that a phenomenon that will cause an upheaval in many job markets, encompassing many more than writers and painters, and prompt whole human societies to question (not necessarily amend, but at least question) their wealth-sharing equilibrium is a "detail", I don't think we have the same definition of "smaller details". But since it's "stuff" to you, I conclude that you're not interested in discussing it. Which is fine.

Nice way to deflect, are you going to address the elephant in the room or just pretend you didn't read my last post?

Since you are now aware that gen-ai is trained via exploitative child labor, i don't think that you are interested in talking about what I am bringing to the discussion.

Ignorance is bliss, right?

 

[trappedslider]

Nice way to deflect, are you going to address the elephant in the room or just pretend you didn't read my last post?

Since you are now aware that gen-ai is trained via exploitative child labor,

Like it's the only industry that exploits child labor

Underage teen workers did 'oppressive child labor' for Tennessee parts supplier, feds say

Tuff Torq of Morristown, Tennessee, was fined nearly $300,000 by the Labor Department for subjecting 10 children to "oppressive child labor."

www.usatoday.com

Owner of northwestern Pennsylvania Domino's locations fined $344K for child labor violations

The owner of multiple Domino's has been fined hundreds of thousands of dollars for over 700 child labor violations.

www.cbsnews.com

Hope your home doesn't have any stone work

How child labour in India makes the paving stones beneath our feet

The long read: Despite promises of reform, exploitation remains endemic in India’s sandstone industry, with children doing dangerous work for low pay – often to decorate driveways and gardens thousands of miles away

www.theguardian.com

 

[Art Waring]

Like it's the only industry that exploits child labor

Underage teen workers did 'oppressive child labor' for Tennessee parts supplier, feds say

Tuff Torq of Morristown, Tennessee, was fined nearly $300,000 by the Labor Department for subjecting 10 children to "oppressive child labor."

www.usatoday.com

Owner of northwestern Pennsylvania Domino's locations fined $344K for child labor violations

The owner of multiple Domino's has been fined hundreds of thousands of dollars for over 700 child labor violations.

www.cbsnews.com

Hope your home doesn't have any stone work

How child labour in India makes the paving stones beneath our feet

The long read: Despite promises of reform, exploitation remains endemic in India’s sandstone industry, with children doing dangerous work for low pay – often to decorate driveways and gardens thousands of miles away

www.theguardian.com

So, because other companies do it, its ok then? Mkay... I really don't know what to say, I am kind of disappointed to say the least.

Justifying exploitive child labor isn't a good look...

 

[trappedslider]

So, because other companies do it, its ok then?

Companies doing illegal/unethical things like this isn't new. Is it because it's generative AI that people should suddenly care?

The person behind the Isaris-AI account made 25K under a year, that's impressive. But we're not going to focus on that. Clearly someone has figured out how to make money from using AI tools.

Which goes to, while folks will and have lost jobs due to it, others are using it to make money.

 

[Reef]

I resent the implication that people only care about child exploitation as a way to attack AI. It's abhorrent, and any industry should be prevented from using it. However, the only power I have in that regard is to try to avoid companies that do use it.

I know how hard that is to do. I also know I fail (probably unwittingly) more often than not. But that doesn't mean new industries should get a pass just because we haven't found the silver bullet to eliminate it across the board in one fell swoop. It's probably easier to stop new industries from doing it, in fact. And if they think that's unfair, well maybe they can help lobby against the ones who do use it.

"Everyone else is doing it" is a lousy excuse for doing evil. And I don't use that term lightly, but child exploitation for profit definitely qualifies in my book. No matter who is doing it.