AI is stealing writers’ words and jobs…

FrogReaver

As long as i get to be the frog
I can't report it because I can't see it on my account.

At this point, I feel like I am at a disadvantage as I can't really see what's going on, and I am not going to stoop to the same behavior (not you Frogreaver, the guy who quoted me while I can't respond).
You can always message a mod to ask about it. They are usually very responsive.

And while I agree responding to someone and then blocking is crappy, it might be worth reflecting on whether what you were doing at the time might legitimately bother someone enough to want to block you at all.
 

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FFS, I am honestly aghast at how you have failed to read what I am saying to you.

I never said the word evil, you guys did. FFS Stop putting words in my mouth.

Keep on deflecting from the fact that gen-ai relies on exploitive child labor to your own detriment.

Keep screaming just how ethical and safe gen-ai is while simultaneously glossing over the fact that gen-ai exists because of extremely exploitive behavior.
So, we question it then what? It's going to exist anyway just like other things that keep existing/happening. Everyone glosses over how the sausage is made.

And I'm not deflecting, I'm going "okay and?"

Humanity has ALWAYS put the the tech before the laws/ethnics before the repercussions happen.

I also haven't blocked you btw.
 


Art Waring

halozix.com
If I were to quote you like I am now, you get a notification. If I then were to block you (and I'm not/have zero reason to) you would still see that notification.

I dont THINK there is a way to hide from someone, while still quoting them to trigger a notification, but what I described and assume happened to you, has happened to me before.

Sometimes people dont like having a mirror held up, and they respond with the old 'well then I'll just block you'.
Yeah I am not sure what happened, I thought I received a notification but I can't see anything now.

Oh well.

I think I tried my best, but its also a difficult subject, I don't blame them for their reaction, it just means that I can't continue the conversation. All I asked for was some proof for their side of the argument. That's it. I guess I understand, so no hard feelings towards anybody in the thread.

You can always message a mod to ask about it. They are usually very responsive.

And while I agree responding to someone and then blocking is crappy, it might be worth reflecting on whether what you were doing at the time might legitimately bother someone enough to want to block you at all.
I didn't think it was worth bothering a mod, who probably has better things to do.

If asking for proof is bothersome enough to silence someone, then I really don't know what to say.

You’re 100% right. I wish more people would question “AI” and open their eyes to the reality this technology will usher in as opposed to being blinded by pie-in-the-sky techbro propaganda.
Thank you @overgeeked. I know that its your thread, and I didn't mean to cause a ruckus or nothin'.

I just wanted to share a perspective that I think is particularly lacking right now. The perspective of someone who is not just a traditional artist, but someone who is also a patron of the arts. I have hired more than a half-dozen freelance artists over the past two years, individuals that I have the utmost respect for, and whom I will continue to support in these difficult times.

The thing is, I phased out of freelancing years ago to start businesses for other people, and to start publishing games for myself. The fact that I get to work with incredibly talented artists is a great blessing to me. I want to see them prosper, and to evolve as artists as they gain experience and improve over the course of their lives. I want to see them able to continue that journey.

I grew up inside the art institute as a small kid as my mom attended night school. I grew up with the smell of oil paint, surrounded by amazing people, and I know in my heart that art is an essential component of society. An often selfless act by humans, made for others, to hopefully enrich our lives and wash away the dust of everyday life. (yes, I just paraphrased Picasso).

I have personally participated in numerous street art projects, including a veterans mural in Portland, and I never received a penny because I didn't want to get paid. I saw it as a way to give back to the community. I fully understand the boundaries of making art for the public, and taking art without consent [like gen-ai]. I simply tried to illustrate these facts for the public at large, as the voices of artists are the tiniest of minorities in the face of the unending deluge of techbro's.

Here are the real facts: Smaller freelance artists can't speak out against gen-ai without risking their jobs. Jobs already put at great risk by the rollout of the myriad of gen-ai tools. Jobs are being replaced every day (both writers and artists). And I can't afford to hire every artist out there. Many artists and writers are being contacted directly from companies, saying they will not be hiring them again, and instead using gen-ai. There is currently little artists can do, they need all the help they can get.

I don't personally benefit one way or the other for arguing against gen-ai, as I am the one doing the hiring of artists, and my artwork isn't at risk of being scraped because my portfolio is behind a patreon paywall.

What I see being at risk is the future of freelance work. Work that doesn't provide health insurance or any job security whatsoever. Artists take a lot of risk to provide a valuable service to the public. A service that I will always value, and I will always continue to support.

The exploitation of working artists is nothing new. What has changed is the technology, which has made it even more difficult for those artists on the lowest end of the economic spectrum, and with little recourse to protect their hard work. Many artists have worked their entire lifetime to create a body of work, something that they have the right to choose to share with the public or not.

Taking that choice away means taking away the very thing that they make art for in the first place.

I have nothing further to say on the subject. If you want to use gen-ai tools, fine, that's your choice. But I will choose to keep supporting artists. Don't bother quoting me because I am not cool with being cyberstalked and I won't be responding to further replies.
 


Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus
FFS, thanks again for taking my quote out of context. I said "potentially illegal," as the laws will likely change in the future. That means that its potentially going to come back to bite them in the ass because they chose to use the LAION-5B dataset, one of the most widely used datasets, which also scraped millions of copyrighted images without permission for non-commercial purposes (which is now being used in commercial products). They are claiming fair use, when the laws have not yet had the time to address these issues.
Generally things that you did that weren't illegal when you did them don't come back to bite you. The laws are enacted going forward so as not to unfairly punish people who didn't actually do anything illegal.
 

overgeeked

B/X Known World
Generally things that you did that weren't illegal when you did them don't come back to bite you. The laws are enacted going forward so as not to unfairly punish people who didn't actually do anything illegal.
Use of copyrighted material without permission is already illegal. The various “AI” companies have already all but admitted to using large troves of copyrighted material. We know they illegally scraped images. You could see the evidence in the early “AI” art generators when they put art website logos into the generated images. Just because something is on the net does not make it free to use. We know they torrented large troves of novels to use as training data for LLMs. There are several court cases already going about this. The only thing up for debate is whether the courts will side with copyright holders or multi-billion dollar mega-corps. I’m not holding my breath for anything resembling justice in these cases. Money always wins.
 

Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus
Use of copyrighted material without permission is already illegal. The various “AI” companies have already all but admitted to using large troves of copyrighted material. We know they illegally scraped images. You could see the evidence in the early “AI” art generators when they put art website logos into the generated images. Just because something is on the net does not make it free to use. We know they torrented large troves of novels to use as training data for LLMs. There are several court cases already going about this. The only thing up for debate is whether the courts will side with copyright holders or multi-billion dollar mega-corps. I’m not holding my breath for anything resembling justice in these cases. Money always wins.
This is a new area, while I think the eventual court ruling will fall the way you suggest above, until the ruling(s) come(s) down, and surprising rulings do happen, we won't know for sure if it really is illegal.
 

Scribe

Legend
Surprised it’s that low considering it’s trained on copyrighted works.


OpenAI spokesperson Lindsey Held wrote in a statement to Axios. "We have measures in place to limit inadvertent memorization, and our terms of use prohibit the intentional use of our models to regurgitate content."

In other words.

"We know we stole everything, so we tried to program the system to mask that fact, and we put the onus on the users via terms of use to not try and get at that copied content."
 

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