All About Grappling (Part Four)

[Egres]

It seems that Skip really loves his house rules.

This week he tries once again to pass one of them as RAW.

If multiple opponents are involved in the grapple, you pick one to make the opposed grapple check against. In this case, you don't have to randomly determine which foe your grab attack strikes (see Part One).


For the last time: the following part is taken directly from the SRD, and it clearly contradicts Skip's words.

Table: Armor Class Modifiers
Defender is . . . ....................Melee.....Ranged
Grappling (but attacker is not) +01 +0 1,3

3 Roll randomly to see which grappling combatant you strike. That defender loses any Dexterity bonus to AC.

 

[kjenks]

I'm glad that when Skip is making up new rules about grappling with natural weapons, he makes it pretty clear that he's making up new rules. It's very strange that these new rules about "one grappling attack per natural weapon" and inflicting lethal damage (without the -4 penalty) run contrary to his ruling in the 3e FAQ:

Can a creature with two natural weapons, say two claws,
make two grapple attempts in a single round? Could a
character using the rules for fighting with two weapons pull
off the same trick? Exactly how many grapple checks can
you make each round?

You can make one grapple check for every attack your base
attack bonus normally allows. The number of weapons you use
doesn't affect the number of grapple checks you can make. For
example, a dire ape, an animal with 5 Hit Dice, has a base
attack bonus of +3, so it can make only one grapple check each
round despite its three natural weapons. Note that when you opt
to deal damage with a grapple, you deal subdual damage
according to your size, not your natural weapon.

 

[Hypersmurf]

For the last time: the following part is taken directly from the SRD, and it clearly contradicts Skip's words.

Uh... a grab attack isn't a ranged attack.

From the SRD:

Joining a Grapple
If your target is already grappling someone else, you can use an attack to start a grapple, as above, except that the target doesn’t get an attack of opportunity against you, and your grab automatically succeeds. You still have to make a successful opposed grapple check to become part of the grapple.

If there are multiple opponents involved in the grapple, you pick one to make the opposed grapple check against.

Skip got that one exactly right.

-Hyp.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Sorry, Egres - you missed this one. Might I suggest, however, this one: http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=125565 ?

 

[Egres]

Uh... a grab attack isn't a ranged attack.

From the SRD:

Joining a Grapple
If your target is already grappling someone else, you can use an attack to start a grapple, as above, except that the target doesn’t get an attack of opportunity against you, and your grab automatically succeeds. You still have to make a successful opposed grapple check to become part of the grapple.

If there are multiple opponents involved in the grapple, you pick one to make the opposed grapple check against.

Skip got that one exactly right.

-Hyp.

?!?

I was underlining Skip's mistake about the fact that you don't have to roll randomly in order to enter a Grapple.

Wasn't it clear?

Just in case my English isn't good enough, I'm going to explain my point in a better way.

The RAW state that you don't need to roll randomly in order to make a melee attack against a grappling opponent.

An attack made to enter a Grapple is an attack.

If Skip specifies that you don't have to roll randomly when you try to enter in a Grapple he implies that, normally, a melee attack needs a random roll.(proof: he refers to his first article about Grapple, where he states that even melee attacks need a random roll).

And thus he specifies a horribly wrong thing, cause melee attacks made against grappling opponents don't need any random roll.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

If Skip specifies that you don't have to roll randomly when you try to enter in a Grapple he implies that, normally, a melee attack needs a random roll.(proof: he refers to his first article about Grapple, where he states that even melee attacks need a random roll).

Ahah!

I see what you're saying now. Yes, I agree with you, though this is less egresgious ( ) than his initial ruling.

Good point.

 

[Hypersmurf]

I was underlining Skip's mistake about the fact that you don't have to roll randomly in order to enter a Grapple.

That's not a mistake.

The RAW state that you don't need to roll randomly in order to make a melee attack against a grappling opponent.

Right.

If Skip specifies that you don't have to roll randomly when you try to enter in a Grapple he implies that, normally, a melee attack needs a random roll.(proof: he refers to his first article about Grapple, where he states that even melee attacks need a random roll).

His first article about Grappling: "You don't get cover from a foe you're grappling, but any ranged attack aimed into your shared space has an equal chance to strike you or the creature you're grappling. Roll randomly to determine which creature a ranged attack strikes (see note 3 on Table 8-6 in the Player's Handbook). If you use a weapon against a foe you're grappling (see Part Two), you don't have to roll to determine the target you actually attack."

He says "a ranged attack".

Skip specifies that you don't have to roll randomly when you try to enter in a Grapple. This is what the rules say as well. There's no mistake.

And thus he specifies a horribly wrong thing, cause melee attacks made against grappling opponents don't need any random roll.

Melee attacks don't. Skip says you don't. Where's the mistake?

EDIT - ah, okay. He's fixed Article 1 from when it first appeared.

But, you see, now Article 4 refers back to the corrected text, so there's nothng wrong with him saying the grab target isn't randomly determined...

-Hyp.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Huh. I think the article's been edited. I could've sworn, about two weeks back, Egres posted the quote from the RotG article that mentioned "Whenever you attack someone in a grapple, roll to randomly determine who you hit" - including melee attacks in the mix, as it were.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Huh. I think the article's been edited.

See my edit

-Hyp.

 

[Egres]

Let me underline that his specification is a bit silly, even after his fixing od the first article.

If melee attacks bagaisnt a grappling opponent never have to be rolled randomly, why did he specify:"In this case, you don't have to randomly determine which foe your grab attack strikes (see Part One)."?

Is it a melee attack?

Yes.

No random roll.

Silly misleading specifications.