DEX also gets initiative, AC, and a frequent saving throw.
D&D 5E Allowing Strength for Bows--unbalanced?
- Thread starter miburo99
- Start date
DEX also gets initiative, AC, and a frequent saving throw.
Ath-kethin
Elder Thing
Of course, this is the very point of ranged combat. I'm sure the French soldiers at Agincourt in 1415 agree with you completely, especially as the English longbowmen decimated their army.
Cap'n Kobold
Hero
One of my houserules is basically adding finesse to bows, so you can choose to use your Str or Dex to hit and damage. That way, the media tropes of the slim elf and/or female being the archer as well as the realism of actual warbows are both covered for players to base characters on.
I assume that all correctly-sized magical bows will adjust their poundage according to their user in the same way armour adjusts, and that a character will pick up mundane bows suited to their capability.
There is a pretty good argument for using Str to hit for bows in D&D, so I didn't feel the need to split to hit and damage into using different modifiers.
I assume that all correctly-sized magical bows will adjust their poundage according to their user in the same way armour adjusts, and that a character will pick up mundane bows suited to their capability.
There is a pretty good argument for using Str to hit for bows in D&D, so I didn't feel the need to split to hit and damage into using different modifiers.
Ancalagon
Dusty Dragon
In 3rd ed we had a character who had both high strength and dex. He was a fighter who took a lot of archery feats. He was a menace. He didn't get to be the archer/machine gun as often as he would have liked, but when he did he was incredibly effective.
I hadn't realized that dex added to damage for ranged attack in 5e. That's a pretty big change I will have to consider...
I hadn't realized that dex added to damage for ranged attack in 5e. That's a pretty big change I will have to consider...
Horwath
Hero
why not?
dex represents accuracy. More acurate shot more damage. attack roll+damage roll is an abstraction.
In general I'd say that dex is stronger than strength in general, it ties to initiative, ac, it's a better save, it has better melee options than strength has ranged.
But I don't think we need a bunch of complicated extra rules with strength reqs or all bows are now finesse or whatever.
I just think it needs to be a bit easier to build throwing str based characters. Which would just be making the action economy of tossing a bunch of javelins the same as shooting a bunch of arrows. Currently you only got the one free item interaction, hard to benefit from haste and multiple attacks. Whereas drawing arrows is part of your attack.
But I don't think we need a bunch of complicated extra rules with strength reqs or all bows are now finesse or whatever.
I just think it needs to be a bit easier to build throwing str based characters. Which would just be making the action economy of tossing a bunch of javelins the same as shooting a bunch of arrows. Currently you only got the one free item interaction, hard to benefit from haste and multiple attacks. Whereas drawing arrows is part of your attack.
I don't see a problem as long as Dex is still used for aiming (To Hit) with the bow and Strength is used only for the damage die. This Str Bow would cost more to purchase and would be useful to classes like Barbarians and Fighters who have a decent Dex and a really high Str score.
Horwath
Hero
this is good idea. It gives back the flavor of heavy bows, but does not break the damage. I just makes bows little more reliable.
str 12 bow, reroll all 1's
str 14 bow, reroll all 1 to 2's
str 16 bow, reroll all 1 to 3's
str 18 bow, reroll all 1 to 4's
str 20 bow, reroll all 1 to 5's
str 20 shortbow can only do max damage
Cap'n Kobold
Hero
Its easier to stick with just one stat or the other. Its quite easy to justify Str applying to hit due to the greater accuracy of a higher-poundage bow, so I'd just stick with all of one or all of the other.
I don't think that 5e needs the kind of granularity where you have to start working out the average of Str and Dex for modifiers or similar. With bows, I allow Str as a nod to balance and realism, Dex as a nod to films, cartoons etc, and don't bother trying to calculate or keep track of the poundage of every bow the PCs pick up.
Xvartslayer
First Post
Strength bows with minimum strength requirements make some logical sense but I dislike them because they have no meaningful impact on the game most of the time. A player with a 14 strength will get a 14 strength bow soon enough and then the rule only becomes relevant in exceptional cases.
Bayonet
First Post
The Longbow already has the Heavy property, but maybe you could houserule it so that any Heavy weapon requires a certain amount of Strength? Possibly a minimum of 12 STR?
As a fellow weapon/fighting nerd, I understand the frustration. I've argued for awhile now that Dex should govern a PC's attack roll, and STR should determine their damage roll, at least when fighting with melee weapons. The same could apply to longbows, with STR also determining how much your max range can be.
In any case, think it's ultimately too fiddly to tinker with combat properties this way. If your players aren't entirely on board, you're likely just going to confuse everyone and kill the fun.
As a fellow weapon/fighting nerd, I understand the frustration. I've argued for awhile now that Dex should govern a PC's attack roll, and STR should determine their damage roll, at least when fighting with melee weapons. The same could apply to longbows, with STR also determining how much your max range can be.
In any case, think it's ultimately too fiddly to tinker with combat properties this way. If your players aren't entirely on board, you're likely just going to confuse everyone and kill the fun.
Saeviomagy
Adventurer
If you mix up dex and str when using bows (ie - dex to hit, str to damage), you're kind of making bows into a sucker option.
If you allow characters to add str to bow damage as well as dex, you'll be boosting already powerful archers.
If you allow characters to choose str or dex for bows for both attack and damage, then throwing weapons will probably still exist, because they can be used one-handed with a shield. I think that if you're super keen on changing something in this area, this would be the way to go.
If you allow characters to add str to bow damage as well as dex, you'll be boosting already powerful archers.
If you allow characters to choose str or dex for bows for both attack and damage, then throwing weapons will probably still exist, because they can be used one-handed with a shield. I think that if you're super keen on changing something in this area, this would be the way to go.
Hriston
Dungeon Master of Middle-earth
First Edition DMG, p 64, under "Strength Bonus Considerations"
It seems the bonus applies to all missile weapons as long as the effort and expense is met to acquire special weapons.
Hriston
Dungeon Master of Middle-earth
Yeah, that's the thing. You could add it to any type of bow. The adventure probably just had a composite bow in it that was specifically built for strength. Maybe that's the origin of your houserule.
JonnyP71
Explorer
I have no idea of the exact origin - it would have been about 1984-5 when it appeared at our games. And when I joined another group in the early 1990s they were already using it. And as has already been said in the thread, the SSI Gold Box games used it, and they were late 80s-90s.
Maybe someone looked at Composite Bows, saw them as more expensive, and made from different materials, and just assumed they fitted the description of "effort and expense is met to acquire special weapons". And maybe quite a few people made the same connection?
Maybe someone looked at Composite Bows, saw them as more expensive, and made from different materials, and just assumed they fitted the description of "effort and expense is met to acquire special weapons". And maybe quite a few people made the same connection?
Allowing strength for bows won't really unbalance anything major.
In a 3.5 based homebrew where armor provides DR, after lot of agonizing over how finesse weapons worked I ultimately settled on: you can use strength or dex for attack rolls for any weapon. If using Str, it adds to damage. If using Dex, it adds to armor penetration (homebrew mechanic).
Since Dex improves one's ability to not be hit, this ultimately provided a nice dividing line between the two builds.
But in 5e there just aren't enough mechanics to play with to generate a similar effect. Dex is king. Giving strength a bit more is going to be fine.
In a 3.5 based homebrew where armor provides DR, after lot of agonizing over how finesse weapons worked I ultimately settled on: you can use strength or dex for attack rolls for any weapon. If using Str, it adds to damage. If using Dex, it adds to armor penetration (homebrew mechanic).
Since Dex improves one's ability to not be hit, this ultimately provided a nice dividing line between the two builds.
But in 5e there just aren't enough mechanics to play with to generate a similar effect. Dex is king. Giving strength a bit more is going to be fine.
Hriston
Dungeon Master of Middle-earth
I think I like the idea of using a Strength prerequisite for bows that do a higher damage die. I'd use the Strength restrictions for heavy armor as my baselines, just to keep things simple. Here's how I'd do it.
Str 13 Shortbow, 50 gp, 1d8 piercing
Str 15 Shortbow, 75 gp, 1d10 piercing
Str 13 Longbow, 100 gp, 1d10 piercing
Str 15 Longbow, 150 gp, 1d12 piercing
Ranges and other properties would remain unchanged.
Str 13 Shortbow, 50 gp, 1d8 piercing
Str 15 Shortbow, 75 gp, 1d10 piercing
Str 13 Longbow, 100 gp, 1d10 piercing
Str 15 Longbow, 150 gp, 1d12 piercing
Ranges and other properties would remain unchanged.
