D&D 5E Alphastream - Why No RPG Company Truly Competes with Wizards of the Coast

[LuisCarlos17f]

Maybe Disney's CEOs notice D&D is the new wave, and then they publish their own RPG to test the reaction by the market. If this works, then mayb they will start to buy 3PPs for their IPs. And I guess a live game show in Disney+ would need a relatively low budget.

 

[teitan]

I keep seeing “general acceptance of geek culture” through this and I beg to differ. I’ve been hearing about “nerds now rule the world” since Devo hit the air waves with Whip It in the earliest 80s and how nerds were no longer social pariahs. So it’s more that the subculture of D&D has been able to outgrow the stigma of the Satanic Panic, the stereotypes of the MOORPG era and, as funny as they were, stereotypes like those Re-enforced by Dead Ale Wives on the benign end and the derisive dismissal humor of others brought on by a lack of understanding of what D&D and RPGs even were or what you did when you played them. This the re-enforcement that endured of the “nerd” in the basement that didn’t fit anything except the odd cackler and his elf lord. With the advent of streaming and seeing how the game played and the types of people who played and took it seriously I think the stereotype broke down. But there’s always been a general acceptance of “nerd culture” for decades now. D&D just had more stigmas than “nerd” associated with it.

 

[humble minion]

I dunno if there's ever been such a thing as a unified 'nerd culture'. It's always seemed so Balkanized. The Vampire players looked down on the D&D players who in turn looked down on people who only played RPG video games, and they in turn thought the Vampire players were a bunch of pretentious Sisters of Mercy wannabes. While, of course, nobody had more contempt for Vampire players than other Vampire players with different opinions about how Vampire should be played. The anime fans (whe they weren't too busy looking down on other anime fans who watched dubs) looked down on the comics fans, while the comics fans looked down on the people who only liked superhero movies. The historical wargamers looked down on the Warhammer players, while the Warhammer players and the Warmachine players busily looked down on each other. And EVERYONE looked down on the furries.

Buffy, for instance, was a big part of mainstreaming 'nerd culture' back in the late 90s ... but even Buffy took a whole bunch of rather snide shots at the 'wrong' kind of nerd. Even now, we've got a whole lot of D&D players claiming how 'the real' D&D is a completely different and far superior thing to the product that Critical Role dishes up.

'Nerd Culture' never got mainstreamed, cos there's no such thing as nerd culture. There's a whole lot of different cultures whose only commonality tends to be they all get dismissed as nerdy by people not into them. Some of them (MCU, Game of Thrones) have gotten mainstreamed. Others (D&D?) may be in the process of doing so, to some degree. But the mainstream success of one doesn't mean much for the others.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

the original WEG Star Wars did pretty well by itself at the time

I played that a fair bit, it was actually pretty great. In terms of complexity level it was similar to 5e.

 

[Mannahnin]

I am surprised that is the case as I view AD&D as the means for Gary Gygax to cut Dave Arneson out of the profits. Gary had to pay Dave royalties for D&D BECMI but not AD&D. The articles I read said Gary would always run BECMI but had rules for AD&D for profit reasons

By the time they were doing the BECMI releases around the world (after 1983) the lawsuits had mostly or all been settled, I think, and I'm pretty sure Dave still got a cut of AD&D; maybe a smaller one. But there may also have been logistical hurdles. Maybe they didn't want to or couldn't organize hardcover printing abroad, for example. Those deals may have been struck after Gary wasn't really running the show, or B/X and then BECMI may have been significantly easier and cheaper to translate; simpler language and a lot fewer pages.

I dunno if there's ever been such a thing as a unified 'nerd culture'. It's always seemed so Balkanized. The Vampire players looked down on the D&D players who in turn looked down on people who only played RPG video games, and they in turn thought the Vampire players were a bunch of pretentious Sisters of Mercy wannabes. While, of course, nobody had more contempt for Vampire players than other Vampire players with different opinions about how Vampire should be played. The anime fans (whe they weren't too busy looking down on other anime fans who watched dubs) looked down on the comics fans, while the comics fans looked down on the people who only liked superhero movies. The historical wargamers looked down on the Warhammer players, while the Warhammer players and the Warmachine players busily looked down on each other. And EVERYONE looked down on the furries.

Buffy, for instance, was a big part of mainstreaming 'nerd culture' back in the late 90s ... but even Buffy took a whole bunch of rather snide shots at the 'wrong' kind of nerd. Even now, we've got a whole lot of D&D players claiming how 'the real' D&D is a completely different and far superior thing to the product that Critical Role dishes up.

Brunching Shuttlecocks did this chart in what, 2002?

 

[Staffan]

By the time they were doing the BECMI releases around the world (after 1983) the lawsuits had mostly or all been settled, I think, and I'm pretty sure Dave still got a cut of AD&D; maybe a smaller one.

As I understand it, Dave Arneson managed to get royalties for the Monster Manual but not most other AD&D books. The exception was Monster Manual II, where he sued TSR to get royalties because it was obviously derivative of the book he did get royalties from.

That's why AD&D 2nd edition had the Monstrous Compendium at first, and later the Monstrous Manual instead of the Monster Manual. Clearly a completely different thing.

 

[LuisCarlos17f]

Some elements from the nerd/geek culture are like the urban tribes. When something becomes too popular, then it becomes old-fashioned. But here the TTRPGs can reinvent themself time after time, for example D&D with Ravenloft and Dark Sun, or from World of Darkness to Exalted, Scion and other titles. And some 3PPs have got interesting ideas. Here there is no creativity crisis.

 

[Mannahnin]

As I understand it, Dave Arneson managed to get royalties for the Monster Manual but not most other AD&D books. The exception was Monster Manual II, where he sued TSR to get royalties because it was obviously derivative of the book he did get royalties from.

That's why AD&D 2nd edition had the Monstrous Compendium at first, and later the Monstrous Manual instead of the Monster Manual. Clearly a completely different thing.

TBF, the original 1E Monster Manual, in retrospect, was clearly written for OD&D and only marginally tweaked with a few anticipated possible changes for AD&D.

 

[LuisCarlos17f]

We shouldn't forget the potential market of online rpg. I don't talk the known MMOs but a new concept, a mixture of multiplayer online videogame and storytelling virtual tabletop. If they find the right recipe, then they can make a lot of money. If AAA videogames need a lot of time and money, then the option is to sell a tool for players to create their own games, campaigns, world, stories, someting like CORE, Roblox or Fortnite: Creative Mode.

D&D is not only the veteran, but also by a megacorporation, and this allows the best ways to promote the product. Now it is in its best time, but we can't forget the the amount of stumbling on the road, videogames that failed, or that movies that fell on the oblivion, even that with Jeremy Irons.

 

[teitan]

He’s also talking about other rpg companies that are moving into other spaces.

Though I do think Marvel is serious about their RPG.

And also Hasbro with their internal outsourced/licensed games Essence20 power rangers, gijoe and transformers game.

But Essence20 isn't internal unless Renegade Studios is Hasbro owned and now Hasbro owns a piece of Vampire. I doubt the Marvel game will make a dent as the last... 4?... barely scratched the surface and the last in house game didn't survive solicitation of the 3rd supplement. Renegade pursued those licenses didn't they?