Alternate Initiative System

[Acid_crash]

I was wondering something...haven't tried it yet, but a notion that crossed my mind after playing Savage Worlds this past weekend. I bring this up because when doing SW our combats were deadly fast and people reacted as their turns came up, but what made it possible was how initiative was handled.

SW uses a card mechanic, using a deck of playing cards, where each person is given a card flipped up, and Initiative for the turn goes from Ace to Two's, and tie breakers in order of suit Spades-Hearts-Diamonds-Clubs. So we could see right in front of us who went, in what order, and were able to plan around it. And it was really fast paced.

So, taking this card initiative mechanic, how would that work in a game of D&D 4e? I ask because part of the problem in all D&D games I've played in is that the DM keeps a track of initiative and players tend to 'do-their-own-thing' and not pay attention to the combat till their names are called.

The only minor issues I can see is are the till the end of next turn power conditions and things like feats that boost initiative scores like Improved Initiative. But, I think those can be worked around. I'm just kind of a loss on how to do it.

What do you think?

 

[weem]

You could just roll initiatives as normal, applying bonuses etc and then hand out cards in order... ex: "PC1 goes first, so here is the ACE... PC2 goes next, so here is the KING... mobs are next, so they have QUEEN, PC 3 is next, so she gets the JACK" etc.

The only minor issues I can see is are the till the end of next turn power conditions [snip]

How come? PC1's power (that ends at the end of his next turn) ends at the end of his next turn, easy money.

[/snip]... and things like feats that boost initiative scores like Improved Initiative. But, I think those can be worked around. I'm just kind of a loss on how to do it.

Feats that boost initiative score only do so for the first round when determining order - after that the order does not change, so this should not be an issue.

 

[Starfox]

The major problem would be that all Initiative modifiers are lost (or need to be converted to redraws etc), which severely hampers some characters. Also, with DnDs slower damage system, initiative just inst important enough to justify doing it over each round.

 

[Nytmare]

For initiative mods each person could start with a card equal to their mod and you add them together. They could put counters on their card when they lay it on the table. For every two points of init mod they could get an extra card and choose the best?

Hmmmm...

For every point of init mod they could get an extra card and then you could rank init by poker hands?

 

[Camelot]

Acid Crash, my group has the same "do-their-own-thing" problem. I think your card idea is brilliant in that it's so obvious. Seriously, why didn't I think of that before? I thought of a white board, but that would require too much erasing and rewriting. This works much better; just pass out the cards!

However, I agree with Starfox. The initiative bonus is important for classes like the rogue who build their strategy on going first. Randomly passing out cards breaks not only the strategy, but the d20 system. Though a system based on cards would be so cool...(idea forming)...

Uh, back to this. =) I think Weem's idea is best. Roll initiative as normal, then pass out cards in order. This way, everyone can see when they're going, and if you put the monster's cards out front, they can plan around that. Of course, what I'd do is put each monster's card out as they take their turn, because I like surprising the player's as to when the monster's will attack. The cards will also help the delaying and readying actions run more smoothly, because you would just exchange cards rather than erase and rewrite!

Thanks for this idea, it'll make combat a whole lot more fun!

 

[Nytmare]

I don't know, that poker hand thing has had me thinking about an Eberron Western since I wrote it.

 

[Siberys]

What would you do with jokers? SW, as I recall, has a special mechanic when you're dealt one of them; something like you get to choose when to go, and certain mechanics worked off of whether you had the joker or not...

Seems interesting. If we get something hammered out, I may try it in my games.

 

[Mechanimal]

It's definitely an interesting concept, and will likely make combat faster. Personally though, I don't think it would work for everyone. The best way is to not try to speed up combat per se, but make it more involving/interesting. Whether you add lots of environment to be messed around with or include some type of skill challenge in the midst of it, are all ways to spice it up. For my initiative, I use a traditional whiteboard, but I let the players do it. That way they can see their turns in order, and when they hit an enemy's defense, they are allowed to write it on the board, so they have to check against it without asking me everytime if it hits. So far, we've double our quickness for battle. I'm also thinking of adding a timer, so whomever plays their turn in under a certain time will receive a bonus of some sort. It may be an action point, a free minor action, free move, auto-save, etc. I usually try to add one thing every session to make things more interesting, and work smoothly. So far, it has all worked in the players' favour.

 

[Camelot]

I like the idea of the player's being able to tell right away whether they hit or miss. It might encourage roleplaying a bit more, for that is where my player's lack. I do it for them. =)

 

[Starfox]

For initiative mods each person could start with a card equal to their mod and you add them together.

Functionally, this is the same as the current system, only using d13 instead of d20. A smaller random component increases the importance of any modifications. But the real problem is that it removes the simplicity of an unmodified card deal. If you have to add up, you might as well add up numbers as cards.