Alternative: Girls (females) in D&D/ Roleplaying

[nedjer]

The OP on 'Girls (females) in D&D/ Roleplaying' manages to/ sets out to completely skip the question of attitudes to, (and attitudes about doing anything about attitudes to), women TRPG players. Time to 'fess up' properly:

1. Have you or are you willing to (AYWT) make a distinction between the positive portrayal of women in games/ gaming and sexist portrayals?
2. Have you or AYWT accept that the consistent use of pictures of bikini-clad women strolling through snowfields alongside rug-wrapped barbarian men is potentially discouraging for some female gamers?
3. Have you or AYWT go out of your way to recruit or encourage girls/ females to join a gaming group?
4. Have you or AYWT go out of your way to encourage girls/ females to join RPG communities?
5. Have you or AYWT tell a publisher, (by email, blog or f2F), that you'd like to see more positive portrayals of women in RPGs?
6. Have you or AYWT present youngsters with equal opportunities to get involved in RPGs?
7. Have you or AYWT adapt rules, settings and gameplay to offer a mix or balance of mystery, exploration, investigation, characterisation and novelty alongside combat-focused gameplay? (Either to encourage all kids equally or females).
8. Have you or AYWT adjust your RPG purchasing habits to at least limit sexist content/ contexts?
9. Have you or AYWT actively discourage obvious and persistent sexism at your game table, e.g. don't laugh along with the jokes/ speak up if a female player appears uncomfortable with some of what's being said?

 

[Wik]

Okay. I'll bite.

1. I'll do both in my games, depending on the setting. My female players have, historically, not cared. And I have actually ignored playing certain games (Pendragon, for example) because I knew my female players would not get much fun out of it.

2. Maybe SOME female gamers. Not any I know - they just joke about it, shrug, and get on with it. Seriously, some people in the world need thicker skin. Sorry for saying it.

3. No. Anyone is open for play - there is no preference set out for anyone. Going out of your way to recruit females is just creepy.

4. Again, no. Unless they're having an "ugly day" and want to feel attractive. Then it's "join an RPG group, or go into a gaming store - every single guy in there will think you're the most attractive person ever!" Sad but true.

5. Not really. This is not my battle - I'm a white, twenty-something guy. The portrayal of women in RPGs is not my fight. I have no strong feeling about it, either way. I do have this dream of telling Kevin Siembieda that he gave "This whole RPG thing" a fighting chance, and that he should instead focus his energies on landscaping. Or bull-fighting.

6. Wait. You mean actually PLAY with them? Ugh! Hell no! Playing with kids is annoying. I game as a leisure activity. I don't want to be the creepy guy recruiting twelve year olds to come "play" in his living room.

7. What the hell? The girls in my group are bloodthirsty minxes. Just last week, when I had to do a one-off session, I was told by one of the girls that she needed her "killing fix". If I made it such a balance, it would be boring the wimminfolk, not getting them involved. But yes, I do like a balance in my games. I guess that makes me in touch with my feminine side... actually, if I had a feminine side, I'd be touching it pretty often. Sueezing it, mostly. Honk.

8. We play 4e D&D. There's very little "sexist content". But I get where you're going with this, and absolutely. Gotta say, though, I'm a little bugged how there are matriarchal societies in abundance in D&D, but any patriarchal society is always underdeveloped and savage. If you can do one, you can do the other, can't you?

9. Oh, sure. But I mean, that's part of the "Don't be a jerk" rule. And it doesn't just apply to the women - it goes for everyone. That being said, we make plenty of sexist jokes, and I have on occasion asked one of my female players "Wait, shouldn't you be in the kitchen?". This always gets a laugh, because that's the group of friends I have. I'm sure we'd piss off some girls.

 

[Oryan77]

I really don't give any of this kind of stuff any thought. My wife plays (she's Afghan and super hot, you'd never think she plays D&D), and I have played with several other women over the years. I don't cater my games to the guys just because they were born male, so why would I cater to a woman just because she's female.

I actually try to cater to the individual player and provide scenarios that I hope that person would like. I won't alter an entire campaign for one type of player.

Besides, girls are not some mystical rare creature to me. I think it is funny every time I see threads pop up that single women out. Why stop there? Why don't we have similar threads that are all about black guys? Black D&D players seem to be more rare than female D&D players. Even better, how can we bring more black women into D&D? I mean, does it really matter? (I know these girl threads pop up just for fun, I'm just teasing).

The funny thing is, most of the problem players I've gamed with were the women. So really, we might want to discourage women from playing D&D rather than cater to them to get them to play.

 

[nedjer]

Okay. I'll bite.

1. I'll do both in my games, depending on the setting. My female players have, historically, not cared. And I have actually ignored playing certain games (Pendragon, for example) because I knew my female players would not get much fun out of it.

2. Maybe SOME female gamers. Not any I know - they just joke about it, shrug, and get on with it. Seriously, some people in the world need thicker skin. Sorry for saying it.

3. No. Anyone is open for play - there is no preference set out for anyone. Going out of your way to recruit females is just creepy.

4. Again, no. Unless they're having an "ugly day" and want to feel attractive. Then it's "join an RPG group, or go into a gaming store - every single guy in there will think you're the most attractive person ever!" Sad but true.

5. Not really. This is not my battle - I'm a white, twenty-something guy. The portrayal of women in RPGs is not my fight. I have no strong feeling about it, either way. I do have this dream of telling Kevin Siembieda that he gave "This whole RPG thing" a fighting chance, and that he should instead focus his energies on landscaping. Or bull-fighting.

6. Wait. You mean actually PLAY with them? Ugh! Hell no! Playing with kids is annoying. I game as a leisure activity. I don't want to be the creepy guy recruiting twelve year olds to come "play" in his living room.

7. What the hell? The girls in my group are bloodthirsty minxes. Just last week, when I had to do a one-off session, I was told by one of the girls that she needed her "killing fix". If I made it such a balance, it would be boring the wimminfolk, not getting them involved. But yes, I do like a balance in my games. I guess that makes me in touch with my feminine side... actually, if I had a feminine side, I'd be touching it pretty often. Sueezing it, mostly. Honk.

8. We play 4e D&D. There's very little "sexist content". But I get where you're going with this, and absolutely. Gotta say, though, I'm a little bugged how there are matriarchal societies in abundance in D&D, but any patriarchal society is always underdeveloped and savage. If you can do one, you can do the other, can't you?

9. Oh, sure. But I mean, that's part of the "Don't be a jerk" rule. And it doesn't just apply to the women - it goes for everyone. That being said, we make plenty of sexist jokes, and I have on occasion asked one of my female players "Wait, shouldn't you be in the kitchen?". This always gets a laugh, because that's the group of friends I have. I'm sure we'd piss off some girls.

One of the best replies to a bunch of questions I've ever seen. Could watch TV for a year without getting anything as undiluted

 

[jonesy]

...everything...

Apparently I need to spread exp before giving it to you again.

However, I've just been told, sorry, commanded, by my girlfriend to tell you the following:

"You sir, are awesome. A million hugs and kisses to you. Rock on!"

 

[S'mon]

My experience has been that female players' most serious objection has been to setting elements they feel are disempowering to their female PCs, so I aim not to include such elements in games with female players. Eg I had a couple female players who objected to some institutional sexism in the society of a late-medieval setting which (contrary to my intent) they perceived as limiting to their very high level PCs, but they had a good time playing low-level but butt-kicking female barbarian PCs in a Conan game, and having handsome youths hanging off them admiringly ike a reverse Frazetta painting.

One player didn't like the inclusion of 'helpless damsel' type NPCs in the game, and since then I've tended to avoid such NPCs/rescue quest objects in games with female players, or else go some lengths to ensure the NPC was a well developed character who retained her dignity (and she ended up marrying one of the male PCs).

Overall, I think the main thing is to be responsive to your players, both male and female, and as far as possible adapt your GMing style to what suits them best. Obviously you shouldn't sacrifice your own enjoyment, and it's ok to run eg a 'guy's night' game, but if so be clear on what you're doing, don't market your game under false pretences, and don't deceive yourself about the nature of your game. If you do have female players, obviously you need to give their preferences parity with those of your male players.

My advice there is aimed at male GMs, but it applies to female GMs too. It applies to all sorts.

 

[Doug McCrae]

I don't see it as my job to recruit more women into the hobby. I do see it as my job not to be a dick, and part of that is avoiding some of the sexist stuff you mention when I'm around teh wimmins.

I've always been down with the idea that there should be more powerful female NPCs (and evil drow don't cut it), than have presented in many published rpg materials, particularly those from the 70s. If it's supposed to be historical, then fine. But D&D, for example, has never been very historical.

 

[Lord Xtheth]

If women want to be in my games, they need to grow a pair

But no, seriously, I don't change anything in my game sessions for women in general, unless they spacifically come up to me and say "Hey, I didn't like this beacause [reason]".

 

[Sunseeker]

The OP on 'Girls (females) in D&D/ Roleplaying' manages to/ sets out to completely skip the question of attitudes to, (and attitudes about doing anything about attitudes to), women TRPG players. Time to 'fess up' properly:

1. Have you or are you willing to (AYWT) make a distinction between the positive portrayal of women in games/ gaming and sexist portrayals?
2. Have you or AYWT accept that the consistent use of pictures of bikini-clad women strolling through snowfields alongside rug-wrapped barbarian men is potentially discouraging for some female gamers?
3. Have you or AYWT adjust your RPG purchasing habits to at least limit sexist content/ contexts?
4. Have you or AYWT actively discourage obvious and persistent sexism at your game table, e.g. don't laugh along with the jokes/ speak up if a female player appears uncomfortable with some of what's being said?

I just want to take a quick second to point out here that these questions in particular are actually sex-neutral when it comes to RPGs. That studly behemoth of a loin-cloth-wrapped man and that bountiful beauty of a chain-mail bikini-clad woman are the same.

This is a common misunderstanding I see when it comes to movies, comics, games, and real life. Depictions of super-men and bikini-babes are equally as sexist, and it is together, men and women, rejecting sexism that progress is made. But remember, all's fair in love and war, combating sexism with a rejection of men only makes the situation worse.

 

[ProfessorCirno]

I just want to take a quick second to point out here that these questions in particular are actually sex-neutral when it comes to RPGs. That studly behemoth of a loin-cloth-wrapped man and that bountiful beauty of a chain-mail bikini-clad woman are the same.

This is a common misunderstanding I see when it comes to movies, comics, games, and real life. Depictions of super-men and bikini-babes are equally as sexist, and it is together, men and women, rejecting sexism that progress is made. But remember, all's fair in love and war, combating sexism with a rejection of men only makes the situation worse.

Yes and no. It's complicated.

Barbarian men and fantasy stylized men are hyper-masculine. The emphasis is on their muscle structure, their biceps, large broadened shoulders, thick bodyset. The traditional barbarian man has a high lifted gaze, a very grounded stance. Traditionally he is very scarred and, well, not attractive, covered in grim and blood. The primary emphasis is in determination and strength. If a woman is presented in the same picture, she's in a state of supplication, while the male typically ignores her.

Barbarian and fantasy styled women are hyper-sexualized. The emphasis is on their sexual features, large breasts, plush lips, widened eyes, bizarrely thing waist. They have a swayed back to better show off their sexual features, giving them a look as if they're ready to fall on their own back at any moment. Traditionally, they are completely unscarred and held to very high beauty standards, often completely unbloodied and looking as if they just stepped out of a fresh shower. The primary emphasis is in readiness to have sex. If a man is presented in the same picture, he is typically either presented as an equal, or as someone the female is attempting to seduce, with again the emphasis being on sex.

Want to make it truly equal? Imagine this picture of Conan the Barbarian: He stands next to the bodies of the dead, twisting his now small waist to present both backside and his chest. His lips are full and slightly parted to shoe both increase sexualized blood flow and shortness of breath. His body is gleaming and oiled without a trace of dirt or grime on it, his hair rich and flowing behind him. His loincloth very obviously stands out from his large and...well. You get the idea.

But we don't see that picture of the male barbarian, do we? No, only of the female barbarian.