Alternative: Girls (females) in D&D/ Roleplaying

[wedgeski]

But, there is hope. Stumbled across this collection of art just now and thought I would share. Lots of pics of men and women (and various other beings) with nary a bit of 'cake.

That is a fabulous set of art.

 

[UngainlyTitan]

Frankly, at this point, the Strength stat is so abstract that modifying it based on sex is sort of silly and won't add anything other then annoy people. Heck, it can be argued that all of the stats represent a character's ability to apply their strength, intelligence, etc rather then a absolute amount. Strength is a bit of an outlier, since it effects lifting and encumbrance which are concrete measurements, but still I feel the principle that the STR score is a mix of muscles, conditioning, etc is valid.

If you wanted to represent human dimorphism regarding strength, giving male characters a small bonus (+1 or 2) to strength when calculating lifting and encumbrance would probably be the best way. Well, that and the differing height/weight tables.

Oh! you have taken me up totally wrong, I do not want to represent human dimorphism in the game, I am pointing out that human diamorphisn is so embedded in our thinking that the fantasy art ignores the lack of it in the game statistics.

 

[jonesy]

But, there is hope. Stumbled across this collection of art just now and thought I would share.

Hey! That's great!

 

[Krensky]

Oh! you have taken me up totally wrong, I do not want to represent human dimorphism in the game, I am pointing out that human diamorphisn is so embedded in our thinking that the fantasy art ignores the lack of it in the game statistics.

No, I got that. It was late and I started musing. As I said, ability scores are so abstract that they seem to represent ability of applying your strength or whatever.

 

[I'm A Banana]

I've taken a bazillion anthropology courses, and it comes down basically to this:

Yar, a quick cultural anthro 100-level course should disabuse most people of the notion that there are hard-coded standards for universal sexiness. But rarity and luxury are always sexy.

Here in New York, there's a surge of women who like guys with beards, for instance. The cultural antho undergrad in me keeps analyzing it in terms of what it means for social status, and I've come to theorize that, here, beards = freedom. This is because most men need to shave for their office job, meaning those who can afford to have a chin warmer are either (a) powerful enough that it doesn't matter, or (b) not that attached to their office job, and thus have the luxury of mobility and choice in their employment. Freedom is a status symbol.

And referencing Twilight provides a counterexample even for that.

Vampire stuff turns the concept of "sickness is unattractive" a bit on its head, because looking pale and sallow is actually an indicator of power, rather than an indicator of fragility. And vampires are powerful. Teen girls don't scream for Edward because he's sick-looking, they scream for him because he's mighty.

There's also a bit of "brooding indoors in the dark" going on there. Paleness is indicative in society of being indoors most of the time and, when you're a teen, that's a key to intelligence: the smart kids with special knowledge are inside all the time, the average kids go outside and screw around in the fields. Which is kind of appropriate for a vampire with all this arcane knowledge.

Anyway, now that I've applied cultural studies to Twilight and Williamsbeards, I think I need to go report to my professors for flogging.

 

[Desdichado]

What does this mean? What makes Sean K. Reynolds an authority on cultural and gender sensitivity? Perhaps the fact that he's a white dude who has apparently very little awareness of the rampant, if often subtle, racism in RPG art?

I never said Sean K. Reynolds was an authority on the subject. What I said was that he's notorious for being over-the-top about sensitivity to stuff like this.

If you're over-the-topping him, your barometer is way off.

Which, based on your oh-so-serious over-reaction to the Seoni Christmas card art and the very existance of the character of Seoni in general, I'd say was pretty obvious anyway.

 

[Hussar]

Wik and Jonesy - yeah, as I said, I have a bit of a fetish myself - I keep surfing the net for images to use in my games. Every year or so I have to empty out my Rough Images directory because it's starting to tip over the couple of Gb scale and that's just ridiculous.

But, that being said, my StumbleUpon thingie is set to troll image sites almost exclusively and the mature filter is on. Somehow, that's just a little bit sad.

 

[Desdichado]

I would think more poorly of a book with those images in them. I wouldn't personally presume to say that everyone should be offended by them and that WotC should change the cover immediately or be called out on their vile sexism. I'd encourage folks to vote with their conscience.

Exactly my point, I guess. I find it at best very off-putting that folks here are crusading, white-knighting and telling me what I should or should not be offended by.

Calling Seoni sexist, or that the responses that were linked to here were paternalistic, "privileged mockery" is... well, it's off-putting. If you're on the bleeding edge of sexual sensitivity, don't project that onto other folks, deal with that yourself.

 

[jonesy]

I'm going to backtrack a bit to this:

The problem with that image isn't whether it's exploitive or not. That depends on your point of view.

The problem is that it shatters suspension of disbelief. to justify a scene like that you'd have to come up with something like:

"The captain went swimming for a while. Then she got up on deck and put on a loose shirt and had a nap in the sun. Having done that she went to her cabin to get dressed. She'd only gotten her jacket on when she heard a commotion break up on deck. She hastily put on her boots and ran up to find her crew fighting over the chest of treasure they'd taken on the last raid. She pulled out her gun, put her foot on the chest and asssumed the I'm-in-charge-here stance. Just then her pet landed on her shoulder."

I mean, unless that actually happened to Clyde during a game it gets pretty convoluted.

 

[Umbran]

Most modern photographers for women's magazines are in the habit of digitally slimming women's hips.

Women's magazines are in the business of selling magazines, diets, clothing, and cosmetics to women. They don't accomplish that goal by showing women that what they already have, they way they currently are, and they way they already look, is what men want.

Thus, women's magazines are not in the business of telling women what men actually want, and the pictures therein will not tell you.

If there's anything in the world that is telling women they aren't good enough, it isn't fantasy game art - it's women's magazines.