Alternatives to 5E (I ask for no particular reason...)

[CapnZapp]

It really is nothing like 4E.

 

[Parmandur]

It really is nothing like 4E.

Yes. But it is a direct reaction, and the result of Goodman thinking "if I made 4E, what would I have done?"

 

[CapnZapp]

Yes. But it is a direct reaction, and the result of Goodman thinking "if I made 4E, what would I have done?"

I remain baffled why you insist on connecting the two games. In 2021 the history behind the decisions that went into the creation of DCC are utterly irrelevant.

What matters is that DCC plays and feels and looks absolutely nothing like 4E. Thank you.

 

[Parmandur]

I remain baffled why you insist on connecting the two games. In 2021 the history behind the decisions that went into the creation of DCC are utterly irrelevant.

What matters is that DCC plays and feels and looks absolutely nothing like 4E. Thank you.

I mean, it does have rules that work more like 4E than Basic or AD&D, such as the core resolution mechanic.

The origin remains relevant because the reasoning behind designing it are what makes the game noteworthy: a radical redesign to the root of the concept of a fantasy RPG, inspired by Goodman's experience with 4E and love of older literary sources. The main point is that it is not a retroclone.

 

[CapnZapp]

That is a particularly B/X move, and there are other exhies: however, a lot of the Sacred Cows that 4E slaughtered stay dead in DCC, such as Vancian casting which is entirely gone (spells are skill rolls that can be dangerous, meaning a Gandalf type is wise enough to avoid spellcasring if at all possible). The XP system is remarkably different from any used in D&D: sort of like milestones, but the milestone is every encounter giving 1-4 XP (by DM fiat of how cool the encounter went), the encounter possibly being a conversation with an NPC, trap or a puzzle.

The "die chain" core mwchanic is also really innovative: sort of like Advantage/Disadvantage on steroids.

I like DCC but the decision to include Zocci dice comes across as a useless gimmick if I'm being honest.

The game is worth checking out, but you do need to get over the wonky dice...

 

[CapnZapp]

I mean, it does have rules that work more like 4E than Basic or AD&D, such as the core resolution mechanic.

The origin remains relevant because the reasoning behind designing it are what makes the game noteworthy: a radical redesign to the root of the concept of a fantasy RPG, inspired by Goodman's experience with 4E and love of older literary sources. The main point is that it is not a retroclone.

It contains useful stuff I recognize from several games, but 4E just is not a game it shares any elements with. DCC is distinctly and thoroughly different from 4E.

 

[Parmandur]

I like DCC but the decision to include Zocci dice comes across as a useless gimmick if I'm being honest.

The game is worth checking out, but you do need to get over the wonky dice...

That's one of the best parts, in practice: it allows for situational factors to matter more than Advantage/Disadvantage does without the tedious modifiers of 3.x/PF, and makes spellcasting wild.

 

[Parmandur]

It contains useful stuff I recognize from several games, but 4E just is not a game it shares any elements with. DCC is distinctly and thoroughly different from 4E.

Sure, because it is an alternate take on how to follow-up on 3E. That is, an alternate 4E.

 

[darjr]

@CapnZapp i think his point is that it exists because Goodman didn’t like 4e and recognized he should have his own game and was learning about appendix n.

 

[Parmandur]

@CapnZapp i think his point is that it exists because Goodman didn’t like 4e and recognized he should have his own game and was learning about appendix n.

Well, I'd say "was frustrated by" 4E more than simple dislike, but yeah.