D&D 5E Am I missing something with Favored Foe?

[Lord Twig]

No, what we need is for the additional attack from TWF to be part of your Action, not a bonus action. It will ruin exactly nothing about the game to do this.

What I did was add a feature called "off-hand attack". If you take the two-weapon fighting style you can take an extra attack with your second weapon as an off-hand attack and it does not require a bonus action. If you don't have the fighting style it still requires a bonus action. Likewise the extra unarmed strike from the monk's martial arts is also an off-hand attack that does not uses a bonus action. Using Flurry of Blows still requires a bonus action, but it increases from 2 unarmed strikes to 3 unarmed strikes at level 11. Finally, any attack taken as a bonus action counts as an off-hand attack.

Of course when I made this rule you couldn't just take a feat to get the fighting style, but I'm not sure if I will change it or not. Two-weapon fighting is under-powered. I don't know if this makes it overpowered or not.

 

[fearsomepirate]

Here's how to fix TWF. KISS principle, real easy:

Once on your turn, when you make an attack with a light melee weapon that you’re holding in one hand, you can attack with a different light melee weapon that you’re holding in the other hand. You don’t add your ability modifier to the damage of this second attack, unless that modifier is negative.

Noticed that I fixed the Beast Master, too. Oh no, now a melee Rogue can always attack twice! I mean, I don't really care. Rogues tend to eschew melee anyway, so a buff to melee fighting isn't going to upset anyone. I'd rather give them a little buff for only holding one weapon that gimp TWF as hard as it is. Maybe bring back bucklers? A little +1 shield that characters with light armor proficiency can use, like rogues, bards, and warlocks? OH NO THAT WOULD RUIN---nothing, it would ruin nothing.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

I think it works for some classes (like ranger), but not for everyone. If it were just the general rule then almost anyone could wield greatsword equivalent weapon damage with very little drawback, making it the baseline (I think the baseline should be less). As it is, a rogue (for example) has interesting trade-offs, potentially on a round for round basis, of whether to use their bonus action for TWF (assuming they are wielding allowable weapons) or for Cunning Action.

That might be an easier way to house rule it for the ranger though. Still trying to decide how to handle it.

Could change the base TWF to include ability mod to damage, and change the fighting style to make the offhand attack part of the attack action.

 

[Sword of Spirit]

Could change the base TWF to include ability mod to damage, and change the fighting style to make the offhand attack part of the attack action.

I think that might actually make it worse. Now almost anyone can deal weapon damage superior to a greatsword.

It's really a tough thing to rework. Balance on TWF warriors (fighters, barbarians, paladins--and rangers in particular) is weak, but balance on TWF for others is about right.

 

[fearsomepirate]

It's really a tough thing to rework. Balance on TWF warriors (fighters, barbarians, paladins--and rangers in particular) is weak, but balance on TWF for others is about right.

Balance on TWF for Fighters is really good. It's a strong DEX-based option.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

I think that might actually make it worse. Now almost anyone can deal weapon damage superior to a greatsword.

It's really a tough thing to rework. Balance on TWF warriors (fighters, barbarians, paladins--and rangers in particular) is weak, but balance on TWF for others is about right.

Then two handers need a buff.

 

[NotAYakk]

Balance on TWF for Fighters is really good. It's a strong DEX-based option.

No, not really.

At level 11, a rapier using duelist fighter with 20 dexterity does 3d8+21 (34.5) damage in an attack action.

On action surge, they do 69 damage (nice).

A shortsword dual wielding duelist fighter does 4d6+20 damage (34) in an attack action and a bonus action. On action surge, they do 7d6+35 (59.5).

With dual wielder feat they do another +4/+7 damage (38 normal/66.5 AS).

This costs you 1 AC, the enhancement bonus from any magical shield, requires 2 magic weapons, and a feat. And the result is not that impressive.

Now, suppose you have a flametongue and a +2 rapier for the DW, and a flametongue and +2 shield on Duelist. Both have 20 dex and wear +1 studded armor.

TWF attack routine is +9@3d8+6d6+15(49.5) +11@1d8+7 (11.5), +49.5 on action surge (61/110.5 with bonus accuracy for 11 of it)
Duelist attack routine is +9@3d8+6d6+21(55.5), +55.5 on action surge (55.5/111).

AC is 19 vs 22.

Duelist has 1 more free feat to spend.

TWF style gets 10% more DPR without action surge (almost no change with action surge), in exchange for 3 AC and a feat.

 

[Sword of Spirit]

This costs you 1 AC

A nonmagical shield actually provides +2 AC in 5e, so it's even further in favor of Dueling.

 

[fearsomepirate]

No, not really.

At level 11, a rapier using duelist fighter with 20 dexterity does 3d8+21 (34.5) damage in an attack action.

On action surge, they do 69 damage (nice).

A shortsword dual wielding duelist fighter does 4d6+20 damage (34) in an attack action and a bonus action. On action surge, they do 7d6+35 (59.5).

With dual wielder feat they do another +4/+7 damage (38 normal/66.5 AS).

This costs you 1 AC, the enhancement bonus from any magical shield, requires 2 magic weapons, and a feat. And the result is not that impressive.

Now, suppose you have a flametongue and a +2 rapier for the DW, and a flametongue and +2 shield on Duelist. Both have 20 dex and wear +1 studded armor.

TWF attack routine is +9@3d8+6d6+15(49.5) +11@1d8+7 (11.5), +49.5 on action surge (61/110.5 with bonus accuracy for 11 of it)
Duelist attack routine is +9@3d8+6d6+21(55.5), +55.5 on action surge (55.5/111).

AC is 19 vs 22.

Duelist has 1 more free feat to spend.

TWF style gets 10% more DPR without action surge (almost no change with action surge), in exchange for 3 AC and a feat.

11th level Fighter, Variant Human:
Subclass: Champion
Fighting styles: Two-Weapon Fighting, Archery
Feats: Dual Wielder, Sharpshooter
Skills: Stealth, others chosen to taste.
Stats & other feats: Chosen to taste.

The melee/archery approach isn't as strong with Duelist. You choose either sacrificing action economy or sacrificing at least 2 points of AC. It's not trivial thing to ignore, as this is specifically what makes the TWF DEX choice so strong for Fighters. Even with the other subclasses, the fact DEX works for both longbows and versatile melee weapons makes it a strong choice.

There are other effects downstream of having that additional attack. You gain more from magic weapons. You don't sacrifice as much to Shove + Attack. You benefit more from certain spells like Enlarge/Reduce and Elemental Weapon. A Battle Master can potentially spend an additional die (wouldn't recommend for EKs). You're likely to force more concentration checks on casters. You lose less damage potential to overkill. Etc.

 

[Rabulias]

A nonmagical shield actually provides +2 AC in 5e, so it's even further in favor of Dueling.

It's only a net loss of 1 to AC because the Dual Wielder feat gives you a +1 to AC when using two weapons.