log in or register to remove this ad

 

5E Am I no longer WoTC's target audience?

Sadras

Hero
I'm not familiar with those threads. But I've run 4e Dark Sun. We didn't need to change any rules. Though we did have psionic and primal PCs - these weren't a feature of our main campaign.
Good grief man! You pretty much skipped 2e DS as you were playing RM and made your D&D return when 4e came out and now you tell me you didn't change any rules? Just exactly what were you going to change them to, given that upthread you specified you were not very familiar with 2e DS?
 

log in or register to remove this ad

pemerton

Legend
Good grief man! You pretty much skipped 2e DS as you were playing RM and made your D&D return when 4e came out and now you tell me you didn't change any rules? Just exactly what were you going to change them to, given that upthread you specified you were not very familiar with 2e DS?
I know that 2nd ed AD&D Dark Sun had a lot of rules changes. I've read them - I have a copy of the 2nd ed Dark Sun boxed set. But some of the changes are obviously unnecessary (like restating armour and weapons - if everyone is using bone and chitin then there's no need to worry about it, as the 4e book recognises). And others - like the changes to starting level and stat - also seem unnecessary, which even the 3E fan conversions recognised.

As far as the classes and races are concerned, in 4e that was covered by themes and backgrounds, and I would expect that something similar would work in 5e. Of course psionics rules are needed, but (as I posted upthread) I think there have already been multiple versions of these in UA.

Frankly if someone owns 2nd ed Dark Sun and wants to run Dark Sun in 5e, it seems straightforward to me. And if they don't own 2nd ed Dark Sun, they can buy 4e Dark Sun - which will make it even more straightforward - for US $14.99 on DM's Guild.

I'm not seeing the big issue here.
 

Parmandur

Legend
I totally don't get the notion that somehow Planescape is less well known or less potentially popular than Dark Sun for the broader, new D&D player base. Planescape is not only inherently connected to whatever setting you already run in, including your homebrew, it is the basis for one of the most celebrated CRPGs of all time that is still played today thanks to a recent remaster and consistently tops the Best RPGs lists. It is almost certain that Planescape has a bigger D&Dpop culture adjacent footprint than Dark Sun.

By the way, I also advocate for Planejammer. Spelljammers, crystal spheres, and phlogiston are unnecessary when you have the Astral Sea that fills exactly the same story function.
Yeah, Planescape is baked into the PHB and DMG as it stands.
 

Sadras

Hero
Frankly if someone owns 2nd ed Dark Sun and wants to run Dark Sun in 5e, it seems straightforward to me. And if they don't own 2nd ed Dark Sun, they can buy 4e Dark Sun - which will make it even more straightforward - for US $14.99 on DM's Guild.

I'm not seeing the big issue here.
The issue (and I repeat more plainly) the people who are really asking for DS in 5e are not the 4e crowd so suggesting a 4e book is not the solution. Furthermore such crowd would likely be far more dogmatic about the rule changes.

Not to pick on @Coroc, but I quote part of his post which might illuminate what I've been trying to say over the last few pages.

Coroc said:
What I do not want on Athas at all are things like magic weapons callable when lost etc etc. That is why I never would allow a blade pact warlock pc not even for an npc like a Templar.

There are other things which ruin your DS campaign that are:
-spells that create food or water,
  • Easy movement spells or feats like teleport fly etc,
  • Feats, especially ones like resilience constitution,
  • Classes like monk or barbarian or whatever can whisk away the environmental challenges, or is not really affected by them or gives big damage reduction.

If you allow any of these in your campaign then you are playing a wussified version of darksun not true to the originals imho.
Bold emphasis mine.
Coroc, Zardnaar and others like them are the type of people who would be asking for a 5e DS, so your 4e game IS but a wussified version of Darksun not true to the originals (EDIT: to them. In case it was not clear), and your suggestion that they pick up 4e DS is unhelpful at best. :p
 
Last edited:

Well, when I say "I would like to see Dark Sun" I am thinking of the original 2nd edition version, not 3rd or 4th edition versions.

When it comes to Dragonlance, it was the 1st edition campaign setting book that contained the interesting stuff.
 

Well, when I say "I would like to see Dark Sun" I am thinking of the original 2nd edition version, not 3rd or 4th edition versions.

When it comes to Dragonlance, it was the 1st edition campaign setting book that contained the interesting stuff.
Any of those versions is available, and you can use them to convert to 5E. I believe that’s @pemerton’s point. The lore is available.

A good chunk of my 5E campaign took place on Athas, and although I’m probably not as dogmatic in my approach to the material, I wouldn’t call it a “wussified” version of the setting.

I like Athas a lot, which is why I incorporated it into my campaign. And while I wouldn't mind seeing official 5E material for the setting, I don’t agree that it’s necessary, nor do I think it should be a priority for WotC.
 


Parmandur

Legend
It's not entirely academic: I've heard Perkins point out that all previous edition Settings are available through the DMsGuild when asked. With the 5E Setting books, it's not just about updating, but about providing a product that can help old school players, introduce new players, and be useful to homebrewers with no intention of using the Setting as such.
 

JeffB

Legend
As is demonstrated here, and in a gazillion other threads since message boards were thing- the reason why WOTC is hesitant to re-publish campaign settings- None of the fans can agree about the setting itself.

In complete opposition to how the CR book has been received- it seems the fans are united in wanting the book, no matter what it may hold. In 10 years I suspect Wildemounte will get the same treatment when a portion of the fanbase feel it is time for a updated version.

As I said somewhere else, consider it a blessing that WOTC doesn't want to touch your beloved version of X, otherwise you may get the equivalent of Tieflings hanging around a port town in Keoland selling magic items and buying food for Iuz :rolleyes:
 


If they want new fans, I suggest interactive games in the media streaming services, for example old titles of "Endless Quest". Or a children cartoon about a spellcaster jester hired by the king to tell (interative) fairy tales with illusory magic for the little princes. Enough D&D but kid-friendly and no violence at all. Spelljammer is very "strange" but not more than "Time Adventure", "Amazing World of Gunball" or another current cartoons.

This is not only "I miss old friends" but we don't know when we are going to see them again. OK, we agree this a company and they want to avoid the hype, but we have got only some piece to speculate about what it will be the next settings. The clues points to DS, Ravenloft or a "Heroes of Horror", and maybe later al-Quadim. I thought Kara-Tur would arrive before because manganime is more popular. I miss news about the return of the old lines. I don't want only updated rehash but metaplots to be continued. They have got more time than G.R.R.Martin to write the saga of "Song of Ice and Fire".

I wonder about the cause of the silence is the other future videogames. If someone is linked to a no-FR setting...

* Comicbook said the show podcast "the adventure zone" (also adapted to comic) will be adapted to an animated serie. Will they be adapted to an official D&D book also? They war too comedy style.

* We agree if we want background we can go to the wiki or the old sourcebooks, but it is as watching episodes of old seasons. I would like something like "Marvel What if" or "DC Elsewords" in DM Guild, where players create time spheres or alternative timelines of classic D&D worlds, for example mixing Spelljammer with a teslapunk version of the races from d20 Future, or a crossover Jakandor-Dark Sun, or the demiplane of the dread (Ravenloft) invading/tainting other worlds from the material plane.

* And we know nothing about new classes after the blood hunter, the artificier and the psionic mystic.
 


billd91

Hobbit on Quest
As is demonstrated here, and in a gazillion other threads since message boards were thing- the reason why WOTC is hesitant to re-publish campaign settings- None of the fans can agree about the setting itself.

In complete opposition to how the CR book has been received- it seems the fans are united in wanting the book, no matter what it may hold. In 10 years I suspect Wildemounte will get the same treatment when a portion of the fanbase feel it is time for a updated version.
I think you've got a point. A new setting, written by its primary author rather than a few bullpen authors down the corporate line, is naturally authoritative. It hasn't been reinterpreted by its readers/users yet or had an update bungled by someone who never really understood it. Greyhawk, by comparison, is owned by WotC, and while any version it publishes is officially authoritative, it will never have the same authentic authority it had before it had gone through so many hands and been interpreted and reinterpreted over so many years.
 

Indeed, and that is why I am more interested in setting books full of 5e focused crunch. The fluff I can find anywhere.
Right. And I get that desire. But I don’t think demand for such a project is all that high. Or at least, not all that high compared to other potential products.

The old books can serve as a guide for how to handle the crunch is also part of what I was saying. The crunch should follow the lore, right? So you start with the lore and then create crunch that reflects this.

I think Psionics is the only real challenge when it comes to Dark Sun for 5E. That’s the only element that’s missing. I found it easy enough to replicate for my needs, but I think a full fledged campaign in Athas would need something a bit more in depth.

Preserving and Defiling would likely be the next most challenging, but they’re relatively easy to accomplish with subclasses.

The rest of what’s needed is pretty straightforward; tweaking spells and so on.

Now, I wouldn’t say they’re never going to do a Dark Sun setting book. Obviously, Ebberon shows they’re willing to do it. I think it’ll depend on what other ideas they think will make sense to put out first.
 




I agree, the appeal of Dark Sun is it's interesting and different, and it has to stand on it's own merit, not trade on nostalgia like Greyhawk and Dragonlance.
Well I do think there’s some element of nostalgia for all the settings. But I would also agree that Dark Sun has something different to offer thematically when compared to a lot of the more traditional settings like those you mentioned.

I think that when it comes to Dark Sun we’ll see a book when they’ve figured out how to present it in as multi-purposed a way as possible. Like, a psionics primer, Tyr gazetteer, Athas monster manual, and adventure path. Some kind of mix to appeal to as many people as possible.

We’ll see. Eventually!
 

Oofta

Title? I don't need no stinkin' title.
5E Modern would be keen.
Yeah, instead of DarkSun I want options to play D20 Modern or similar. Maybe give options to combine the post apocalyptic feel along with it. A Fallout-esque setting could be fun, ogres with mini-guns and all. Heavy armor becomes power armor for people that want to play tanks and so on.

P.S. I know there's a Fallout RPG, that's just an example of feel of a possible setting.
 

Don't you remember the UA article about Modern Magic? There is a open door for the return of Urban Arcana, and one reason is because it's easiest to be adapted to an action-live movie (and you can sell toys with vehicles) or serie, something like "Blink" with Wil Smith. And I bet Hasbro wants a TTRPG of the Hasbroverse. But before we will have to see previous steps as a Gamma World videogame, the remake of "Masque of the Red Death", Spelljammer and maybe Red Steel/Savage Coast to playtest the right power balance between firearms, magic and fighters without previous two.

D20 Modern is a challenge for game designers, because a monster as a dinosaur in a Sword & Sorcery may be a true knightmare for PCs but with modern tech it can be killed with only one shot. A slasher or an alien bug can ver too dangerous in a survival horror where PCs are unnarmed civilians, but cannon foder in a battlefield campagin where PCs are one-man-armies. Remember the lieutenant Ripley against the xenomorph aliens, or the zombies/infected before and after Resident Evil 4.

I could bet a Fortnite: Save the World TTRPG is possible.

If Fantasy Flight Games loses the licence of Star Wars WotC is the best candidate to get it again.

There are sci-fi TTRPGs using 5Th Ed system, but also Paizo has opened a door with its Starfinder.
 
Last edited:

COMING SOON: 5 Plug-In Settlements for your 5E Game

Advertisement2

Advertisement4

Top