D&D 5E Am I no longer WoTC's target audience?

[Urriak Uruk]

That is the reason I mention so many times the chronomancers and time spheres, because allowing a D&D version of Marvel What If? or DC Elseworlds would be nice.

Thing is, D&D is already a "What if?" People take stuff and change them at their own table. Your homebrew world, or your version of Forgotten Realms at your table, is your Elseworld. If you want chronomancers or time spheres, use them.

The difference is you're asking for official Elseworlds/time spheres, which is more likely to p*ss off "lore purists" and long-time gamers than be attractive to people who like crossovers.

Personally, I find crossovers kind of silly and only really work for super-heroes. It's something I don't really need to see too often in D&D; the odd mention of another world, or character from somewhere else passing into another is fine, but I don't want to see Strahd, Asmodeus and Acererak team up and make a Legion of Doom for the heroes of D&D to unite against. I find that pretty off-putting and more of a marketing gimmick than actual compelling story-telling.

 

[Zardnaar]

Thing is, D&D is already a "What if?" People take stuff and change them at their own table. Your homebrew world, or your version of Forgotten Realms at your table, is your Elseworld. If you want chronomancers or time spheres, use them.

The difference is you're asking for official Elseworlds/time spheres, which is more likely to p*ss off "lore purists" and long-time gamers than be attractive to people who like crossovers.

Personally, I find crossovers kind of silly and only really work for super-heroes. It's something I don't really need to see too often in D&D; the odd mention of another world, or character from somewhere else passing into another is fine, but I don't want to see Strahd, Asmodeus and Acererak team up and make a Legion of Doom for the heroes of D&D to unite against. I find that pretty off-putting and more of a marketing gimmick than actual compelling story-telling.

This.

If you want a superhero type world make a superhero type setting.

 

[Sorcerers Apprentice]

I don't want to see Strahd, Asmodeus and Acererak team up and make a Legion of Doom for the heroes of D&D to unite against. I find that pretty off-putting and more of a marketing gimmick than actual compelling story-telling.

I, on the other hand, will be stealing that idea. My players are in need of some decent opposition!

 

[hawkeyefan]

Thing is, D&D is already a "What if?" People take stuff and change them at their own table. Your homebrew world, or your version of Forgotten Realms at your table, is your Elseworld. If you want chronomancers or time spheres, use them.

The difference is you're asking for official Elseworlds/time spheres, which is more likely to p*ss off "lore purists" and long-time gamers than be attractive to people who like crossovers.

Personally, I find crossovers kind of silly and only really work for super-heroes. It's something I don't really need to see too often in D&D; the odd mention of another world, or character from somewhere else passing into another is fine, but I don't want to see Strahd, Asmodeus and Acererak team up and make a Legion of Doom for the heroes of D&D to unite against. I find that pretty off-putting and more of a marketing gimmick than actual compelling story-telling.

I personally love crossovers, and my 5E campaign consists of a lot of worldhopping. My PCs have been from Toril to Sigil to Oerth to the Shadowfell and Barovia to Athas and several other planes in between. But we're intentionally going for a very cosmic approach along the lines of a superhero story. My group of PCs is very much a JLA or Avengers type team made up of all star PCs from many different campaigns we've played over the years.

And they are very much opposed by an organization made up of a ton of our top villains, including several from existing lore (Iggwilv, Snurre Ironbelly, Eclavdra, Manshoon, etc.).

All that said, there's no reason to make any kind of "alternate" versions of any of these locations. I'd never expect what I described above to be the default approach to a campaign. When it comes to the settings, they have to find a default version that will appeal to the most, and then leave any tweaking to DMs/players who want something different.

For instance, the ability for my PC group to get to Athas by portal from the City of Brass would likely make some Dark Sun fans' heads explode cuz of the lores!!!!

Changing things or making alternate takes on the settings is something easily left to the play groups.

 

[Urriak Uruk]

I, on the other hand, will be stealing that idea. My players are in need of some decent opposition!

As I say in my comment, if you like that stuff, go for it! It's your table, do what you find is fun!

I personally love crossovers, and my 5E campaign consists of a lot of worldhopping. My PCs have been from Toril to Sigil to Oerth to the Shadowfell and Barovia to Athas and several other planes in between. But we're intentionally going for a very cosmic approach along the lines of a superhero story. My group of PCs is very much a JLA or Avengers type team made up of all star PCs from many different campaigns we've played over the years.

And they are very much opposed by an organization made up of a ton of our top villains, including several from existing lore (Iggwilv, Snurre Ironbelly, Eclavdra, Manshoon, etc.).

All that said, there's no reason to make any kind of "alternate" versions of any of these locations. I'd never expect what I described above to be the default approach to a campaign. When it comes to the settings, they have to find a default version that will appeal to the most, and then leave any tweaking to DMs/players who want something different.

For instance, the ability for my PC group to get to Athas by portal from the City of Brass would likely make some Dark Sun fans' heads explode cuz of the lores!!!!

Changing things or making alternate takes on the settings is something easily left to the play groups.

Exactly! Official Wizard's content (and I think 5E has done this extremely well) should be designed to provide DM's and Player's Toolkits and outlines for them to create their own narratives/worlds. It should not be in shoehorning a meta-narrative, or a "one-size fits all" approach to gaming.

So if you want to do plane-hopping between worlds that are very different, like say Star Trek, you have the ability to do so.

The only time I've seen Wizard's get close to a negative crossover is with the Acq. Inc. book, as a lot of "Forgotten Realms purists" loathe that book as making a parody of their favorite world. I don't really agree and personally think it's just depicting a different version of Forgotten Realms (and largely don't care bc I find FR a mess anyway), but I understand why people would be upset that an official book is taking a much more comedic look at their favorite, and perceived serious, world.

 

[generic]

The only time I've seen Wizard's get close to a negative crossover is with the Acq. Inc. book, as a lot of "Forgotten Realms purists" loathe that book as making a parody of their favorite world. I don't really agree and personally think it's just depicting a different version of Forgotten Realms (and largely don't care bc I find FR a mess anyway), but I understand why people would be upset that an official book is taking a much more comedic look at their favorite, and perceived serious, world.

FR is a mess, indeed it is. Isn't that right @gyor ?

 

[QuentinGeorge]

Other way around. Planescape is built on the foundations of the default cosmology which were already present. They were not Planescape before Planescape was printed. They're the default cosmology of the Great Wheel. Planescape takes the Great Wheel and then introduces Sigil as the campaign setting, which happens to have portals all over the place to the other planes. That doesn't mean that any reference to the Great Wheel is automatically Planescape. Quite the opposite. Planescape doesn't get to claim the existing material as restricted to it's campaign setting any more than Fighter, Elf, Magic-User, or Lawful Good are parts restricted to Greyhawk. Truly, Planescape is primarily a re-imagining of the concept of the World Serpent Inn from Tales of the Outer Planes (OP1), grown and expanded into a full campaign setting.

Planescape itself is merely the parts that the Planescape Campaign Setting introduced: the PR-appropriate names for demons, devils, daemons, and angels; the PR-appropriate names of the planes, especially the lower ones; and the Sigil-centric Lady and faction system added to have a functional metropolis to base a campaign in. The meat of the setting, however, is Sigil, the Lady, and the twelve factions because that's really the only part that's new. It's intentionally just an extension of the Great Wheel. It's intentionally a campaign setting that lauches off the Manual of the Planes. It's meant to be a way to run MotP content so that low level characters can experience it without immediately dying (which is basically what the MotP tells you will happen). That's it.

The names "baatezu", "tanarri" and "yugoloth" predate Planescape - they were part of the post-Gygax bowlderisation. I think the new plane names might be Planescape originated, though (there was very little outer plane stuff in 2nd edition until Planescape, really just the Monstrous Compendium). Really, I'd say Planescape is pretty much Sigil, and all related to it (Factions, Lady of Pain etc).

If we get a "Planescape" supplement it will most likely be "Shemeska's Guide to Sigil" or something like that and primarily detail the city.

 

[JeffB]

I, on the other hand, will be stealing that idea. My players are in need of some decent opposition!

I think something like this would be super fun in the grand scheme of things. Evil Gods or Super Liches of multiple Settings working against the Multi-Verse? Awesome.

Get Jeff Dee and Bill Willingham to do the art, and you have my $

 

[Fenris-77]

Why would anyone bother to loathe Acquisitions Inc.? No one is being forced to use it and it doesn't have to impact anyone's personal FR, so why the nerd rage?. There is very much a thing as taking yourself too seriously and that, for me, makes the list. Personally I think the book is brilliant, and I'm actually going to be using it to frame the next campaign I run for my boys as an arc to string together a series of classic modules like KotBL.

I may also snag that Legion of Doom idea. I'm prepping Dragon Heist right now and that seems like a way more fun segue that doing the Dungeon of the Mad Mage. Just mix in a Professor Moriarty character (which I was going to do anyway) and it sounds like a blast.

 

[Urriak Uruk]

I think something like this would be super fun in the grand scheme of things. Evil Gods or Super Liches of multiple Settings working against the Multi-Verse? Awesome.

Get Jeff Dee and Bill Willingham to do the art, and you have my $

My whole point was that doing this as official content is pretty immersion-breaking for some players. Myself included.