D&D 5E Am I no longer WoTC's target audience?

[jayoungr]

I would argue there's quite a bit of resemblance. Elven chain, elven boots, elven cloaks - all from D&D elven culture and all based on LotR. Mechanical advantages with certain kinds of weaponry to encourage them to play according to a particular style that fits in with elves as portrayed in LotR. Silent movement and good night vision in various iterations, both work in line with LotR. Issues around sleeping also fits in with the way Legolas is portrayed in LotR.

And see all that as just superficial trappings and easily borrowed gimmicks. The items and neat tricks are just items and tricks, nothing really to do with who they are as a people. (shrug) I guess it's a matter of perspective.

If Tolkien wasn't a very big influence on D&D creators he has been for lots of players.

That's fair, and I don't disagree.

Dwarfs have been popular because they were like a mixture of vikings and knights of the round table but with Sancho Panza's bodies.

It's worth noting that Tolkien didn't create that version of dwarves, though he did popularize it. But he lifted them pretty much straight out of Germanic/Scandinavian folklore and just tweaked them a little.

And elves are closest to ideal to human perfection but with lower strongh.

This is one of the big ways D&D elves differ from Tolkien's elves, though. Tolkien's elves would be taller than all but the very tallest humans, and they'd probably have higher stats in every single slot. Which would obviously be unplayable, so I am not against the idea of changing something. But once you do that, what you end up with is no longer a Tolkien elf.

Anyway, even if we say there "some" similarities between D&D elves and LOTR elves, and that halflings are pretty much straight lifted from Tolkien, that still doesn't mean that playing D&D's assumed world = playing in Tolkien's world. There are tons of other things in D&D that reflect other influences (barbarians, anyone?), and the tone is going to come out quite different unless the DM deliberately steers it toward Tolkien.

 

[Anoth]

And see all that as just superficial trappings and easily borrowed gimmicks. The items are just items, nothing really to do with who they are as a people. (shrug) I guess it's a matter of perspective.


That's fair, and I don't disagree.


It's worth noting that Tolkien didn't create that version of dwarves, though he did popularize it. But he lifted them pretty much straight out of Germanic/Scandinavian folklore.


This is one of the big ways D&D elves differ from Tolkien's elves, though. Tolkien's elves would be taller than all but the very tallest humans, and they'd probably have higher stats in every single slot. Which would obviously be unplayable, so I am not against the idea of changing something. But once you do that, what you end up with is no longer a Tolkien elf.

Anyway, even if we say there "some" similarities between D&D elves and LOTR elves, and that halflings are pretty much straight lifted from Tolkien, that still doesn't mean that playing D&D's assumed world = playing in Tolkien's world. There are tons of other things in D&D that reflect other influences (barbarians, anyone?), and the tone is going to come out quite different unless the DM deliberately steers it toward Tolkien.

I don’t think dark sun halflings resemble Tolkien at all. Same with cerillian halflings.

 

[jayoungr]

I don’t think dark sun halflings resemble Tolkien at all. Same with cerillian halflings.

Agreed, but the original halflings when they were first added to D&D did. The variations came later, as I understand it.

 

[Anoth]

Agreed, but the original halflings when they were first added to D&D did. The variations came later, as I understand it.

I think that is alot how things happen. They evolve from something that has already been done. Nothing wrong with that. It is the natural process.

 

[Arilyn]

Agreed, but the original halflings when they were first added to D&D did. The variations came later, as I understand it.

Yes, when thief is pretty much the only class your race can succeed at, you are going to morph into thieving scoundrels.

 

[Arilyn]

Yes, when thief is pretty much the only class your race can succeed at, you are going to morph into thieving scoundrels.

In old D&D, of course.

 

[Urriak Uruk]

We really should just make a separate thread for Greyhawk debate on PC races now, since we've strayed way off topic from the actual thread title.

 

[hawkeyefan]

Tolkien had a huge influence on D&D, despite some of Gygax's protestations. It's just that there are other influences, as well. Which is a good thing, to be sure....but I don't think we can deny the influence of Tolkien.

I mean.....halflings are what? Pretty sure they were even called hobbits in the earliest material, until they realized that might border on infringement of some kind. So they changed the name of the race to the word used by characters in the books to refer to the hobbits.

 

[Fenris-77]

Halflings were initially called Hobbits in D&D, at least until the Tolkien lawyers came knocking. That's about as firm a connection as you could ask for.

 

[hawkeyefan]

Halflings were initially called Hobbits in D&D, at least until the Tolkien lawyers came knocking. That's about as firm a connection as you could ask for.

Boy you been ninjaed!