D&D 3E/3.5 Ambidexterity [3.5]

[Technik4]

Should ambidexterity walk the plank? Personally I don't think so. Right now (from what we know) TWF [3.5] will reduce the penalties from -6/-10 to -4/-4, with an additional +2/+2 if the off-hand weapon is light.

Now, reality aside, lets talk game mechanics. Just as it is ridiculous to try and fight DR 50/+3 with a +2 weapon, it is silly to try and wield 2 weapons with penalties like -6/-10. And when I say silly, I mean absurd.

What if TWF reduced penalties to -4/-4, but with no regards to a further reduction if the off-hand weapon is light. This means, that for the 2-longsword wielder, or 2-bastard sword weilder, it costs 1 feat to fight with 2 weapons. However a rogue who chooses 2 shortswords will be at a larger penalty until the rogue has mastered ambidexterity.

Furthermore, ambidexterity should give a +2 bonus to Sleight of Hand (was Pickpocket). Would this make it a worthwhile feat? Or am I just dense in thinking that 1 feat is too cheap for dual-wielding two cheap shortswords?

I would set the prereqs for TWF to be STR based, while Ambidexterity would be DEX based. Thus you could make a brute twf or a finesse twf. Double weapons would work without ambidexterity, requiring only twf to get a -2/-2.

The biggest problem I see is that it further penalizes rogues to try a rapier/shortsword style (or any twf style with 2 different styles), since it costs even more feats with regards to Weapon Focus.

Technik

 

[hong]

What?

 

[Technik4]

TWF [3.5] combines twf [3.0] and ambi [3.0]

What if you pick apart what the two-weapon fighting feats negate in the way of penalties.

TWF [Alt] makes the penalties -4/-4, without regards to whether the off-hand weapon is light. Double weapons penalties are -2/-2.

Ambi [Alt] makes the penalties -2/-2 IF the off-hand weapon is light, and provides a +2 to Sleight of Hand (was Pickpocket).

Technik

 

[Shadowlord]

Ambi [Alt] makes the penalties -2/-2 IF the off-hand weapon is light, and provides a +2 to Sleight of Hand (was Pickpocket).

Does Ambidex do that in 3.5 ? That would be great, fighting with two light weapons wouldn't impose any penalty at all!
But I don't understand the need to limit it to light weapons, who already get a +2/+2 bonus.
So, fighting with two regular weapons would be -4/-4 and with a light weapon 0/0. Who's gonna even try a non-light weapon?

 

[Technik4]

No, I must be writing really ambiguously tonight. And to clarify, this is sort-of a "would you have preferred 3.5 did it this way" rather than actual 3.5 info.


Table 8-2: Two-Weapon Fighting Penalties
Normal Penalties: -6/-10
Ambidexterity: -6/-10
TWF: -4/-4
Off-hand weapon light and Ambidexterity: -4/-8
Off-hand weapon light and TWF: -4/-4
Ambidexterity and TWF: -4/-4
Off-hand weapon light and Ambidexterity and TWF: -2/-2

To recap:

If you have just the TWF feat and are NOT using a light weapon, your penalties are -4/-4 (just as they would be in 3.0) and you do not need to take Ambidexterity.

If you have the TWF feat and the Ambidexterity feat and your off-hand weapon is light, your penalties are -2/-2 (just as they would be in 3.0).

Its somewhat of what seems to be logically inverse, but I think mechanically it is more sound.

Technik

 

[Michael Tree]

Too complicated. I like it as one feat, as it will be in 3.5, though I'd prefer if the default for fighting with two weapons was -6/-6, not -6/-10.

 

[Felon]

Too complicated. I like it as one feat, as it will be in 3.5, though I'd prefer if the default for fighting with two weapons was -6/-6, not -6/-10.

Yeah, I'm on board with that. Go ahead and ditch the notion of an "off-hand" altogether.

 

[Valiantheart]

Im going to bring it back and treat it as Absolute Ambidexterity.

That way you can get two smalls or 1 med n 1 small to +0/+0 and 2 meds at -2/-2.

I dont see why not. A feat that reduces a penalty is less powerful than one that gives a bonus.

 

[Eldragon]

Can someone refresh me on what TWF 3.5 is?

It was my understanding TWF gives -4/-4 and -2/-2 only If both weapons are light. and the STR bonus is not halved with the off hand.

 

[WattsHumphrey]

Yeah, I'm on board with that. Go ahead and ditch the notion of an "off-hand" altogether.

Amen to that!

I had a dual-shield wielding character recently and it was veeeery strange. The shields had different abilities and bonuses... and so I sometimes used one to attack, sometimes the other... and sometimes both.

Strangely enough, the 'on hand' is only determined by which you choose to make it be... so in one combat, I'd get all my strikes w/my left hand and the next they'd all be with the right...

Get rid of on/off hand... doesn't really make sense anyway as a rule mechanic (IMO). I find it easier to just say "it's difficult to balance bashing things with both hands, so you have a nice, flat, easy to understand penalty for doing so." If you'd like to be right or left handed, that's an interesting rp aspect to add.

(Oh, and I just realized that this means that you could dual wield armor spikes and a two handed sword and make the armor spikes your on hand if you wanted... leaving the sword in both your grubby mitts as your 'off hand'... lol)

Well, that was fun... but sorta OT... sorry ^_^