American Indians Colonize the Old world in 1250 BC

[pemerton]

True the word counter was a poor choice. You are correct there are quite a few similarities between the two, the most obvious difference that comes to mind is the fact that ancient Greek philosophy (specifically Stoicism) promoted primarily self-control and logic to attain tranquility while Buddhism promoted quiet meditation/training leading to the removal of negative emotion and thoughts to attain inner peace.
It is this conflict between the approaches that would be of interest to me.

Buddhist teaching is not averse to self-control. If Stoics became interested in the Buddhist theory of the mind (I'm thinking of "textbook" Buddhism and glossing over the great variation in actual beliefs and practices) it's not obvious to me that they couldn't incorporate elements of it. I also think that Stoicism has some elements in common with Taoist-influenced Buddhism; and it's not absurd to think of "clinging" mental states as ones that are contrary to nature (especially within the framework of the Buddhist theory of causation).

Epicureanism also has some clear points of affinity to "textbook" Buddhism.

This isn't really to contradict, but just to elaborate on my earlier post.

 

[Thomas Bowman]

I'm not an expert on Buddha. This statue is all I know about it. Don't know much about Hinduism either.

 

[Sepulchrave II]

I think that the historical contacts between the Hellenistic and Buddhist spheres were rather more extensive than many people realize. As early as the 5th century BCE “Pythagoras” – whomever that name is supposed to represent – was attached to “oriental” practices: asceticism, vegetarianism, reincarnation and communal monasticism were all connected with the Pythagoreans. This is before Buddhism itself had even coalesced – probably from an earlier practice of which Jainism is another offshoot.

After Alexander’s death the Greco-Bactrian successor state practiced a fusion of Buddhism, Zoroastrianism and Hellenism.

Emperor Ashoka is recorded as having sent 250 Buddhist monks to Alexandria – this likely had a deep impact on developing Hermetic, Gnostic and other mystery cults; the sect of the Therapeutae, who were based on Lake Mariotis in Egypt, may have been a successor to these original missionaries: Therapeutae may be a corruption of Theravada – phonetically, the two names map perfectly. The Therapeutae are described later as the “first Christian monastic community.” Go figure.

The “halo” shown in Christian iconography is taken directly from Hellenized representations of Buddhas.

The Dharma wheel appears in Egyptian iconography in the last centuries BCE.

“Gymnosophists” – naked sages from India – are attested in a number of sources from the Greco-Roman world; Clement of Alexandria identifies some that revere Βούττα.

Apocryphal stories of early Christians such as Thomas “travelling to the East” are ciphers for incorporating Dharmic precepts into early Christian practice and literature.

The common representations of Buddhas in statuary – such as that posted by Thomas Bowman above – were shaped by Hellenistic aesthetics in Central Asia.

It’s worth remembering that Buddhism in its early stages was a fiercely missionary religion; proselytes were literally sent all over the known world. There was an awful lot of traffic along the Silk Road.

 

[Thomas Bowman]

Most Buddhists I've met don't talk about their religion all that much, all I know is they go to some temple to worship whatever it is that Buddha is. I'm not much into hermeticism or monasticism. I think depriving oneself of material things when one has them is a silly idea, and I don't know what it accomplishes. I think the idea is that life is an illusion and the mind is the only thing that exists, that is the impression I get anyway, from all its popular representations.

 

[Sadras]

Thanks for the history lesson [MENTION=4303]Sepulchrave II[/MENTION]. Much for me to read up on

 

[dragoner]

That sounds do-able, in the sense that "How do we get from there to here?" can be thought about and a reasonable Alternate History can be projected.

You would still have Rome, facing Carthage. China is out there, the Scythians in modern Ukraine, Gauls in far-west Europe, Alexander the Great died when Ashoka's dad was a kid...
All these states would take offense to Ashoka trying to conquer them - but a wave of missionaries might see good success, especially in the Hellenic world (Persia, Greece, Med. city-states). The traditional Babylonian &c gods all had recently demonstrated 'why should we believe in you?' weaknesses that could be exploited; Greek religion was based on deities that acted like squabbling kids. And Buddhism did spread over China IRL.
Buddha's missionaries, teaching principles that are timeless, could look/sound pretty good.

"Known World" might be too ambitious, though through the old Achaemenid/Persian Empire to Macedonia could have happened, maybe if Mauryans had adopted the parliamentary democracy of Kalinga. Greek communities in India date back to the 3rd century BC, so the knowledge flow east-west is there.

Greek rational thought to Buddhism would be very interesting, and even if this new Indian empire collapses around 500 AD, it lasting influence, similar to Rome's influence has been felt longer than the actual empire.

Of course, what does this mean for Rome? Carthage spent an inordinate amount of energy fighting the Greeks before fighting Rome, maybe Carthage is able to survive ...

 

[Riley37]

Epedocles, a pre-Socratic philosopher, taught that that souls can be reincarnated between humans, animals and even plants; he advocated vegetarianism, since animals are souls punished in rebirth; wise people's souls, free from the cycle of reincarnations, are able to rest in happiness for eternity. That's compatible with Buddhism.

You've seen pictures of Greek statues with no arms, right? And Hindu statues with lots of arms? Obvious explanation: Alexander's expedition to India was well-armed.

all I know is they go to some temple to worship whatever it is that Buddha is

In the time you spent writing this, you could have looked up an intro to Buddhism. At least then you'd know what you were disagreeing with. Everyone's starting point on most topics is ignorance, but you don't have to wallow in ignorance.

 

[Thomas Bowman]

Epedocles, a pre-Socratic philosopher, taught that that souls can be reincarnated between humans, animals and even plants; he advocated vegetarianism, since animals are souls punished in rebirth; wise people's souls, free from the cycle of reincarnations, are able to rest in happiness for eternity. That's compatible with Buddhism.

You've seen pictures of Greek statues with no arms, right? And Hindu statues with lots of arms? Obvious explanation: Alexander's expedition to India was well-armed.



In the time you spent writing this, you could have looked up an intro to Buddhism. At least then you'd know what you were disagreeing with. Everyone's starting point on most topics is ignorance, but you don't have to wallow in ignorance.

I'm not particularly interested in real world present day religions. They tend to complicate matters. The old greek gods make great comic book characters however as no one or very few people take them seriously.

 

[Shasarak]

The old greek gods make great comic book characters however as no one or very few people take them seriously.

Dont say that, are you trying to get turned into some kind of Monster?