Ampersand: Sneak Attack

[Baduin]

Try crawling with a bow. Crossbow is really good for shooting from ambush, since you can use it prone, and can load and draw it earlier and wait for a long time before shooting.

To shoot a bow you have to stand up straight, draw it and let loose. Not much chance for any surprise attacks.

 

[Just Another User]

I just want to say this, it is a very interesting preview and it improved my opinion of 4e considerably, Damage seems to be way reduced, and healing surge (that IMHO indicate the number of hps you recovere with a second wind) sound reasonable, but I still can't put my head around the per encounter/per day powers. I don't see why torturous strike is a per encounter power, How the enemies seeing me doing it stop me from "twist the blade in the wound" a second time? or the first time they didn't know I wanted to hurt them?. I don't understand the rationale that make Crimson edge a per day encounter, it doesn't look something incredibly tiring or that need some kind of supernatural concentration like stunning fist. That you need to do it to balance them it is clear, but it is just not justification enough for me.

 

[Majoru Oakheart]

I don't see why torturous strike is a per encounter power, How the enemies seeing me doing it stop me from "twist the blade in the wound" a second time? or the first time they didn't know I wanted to hurt them?. I don't understand the rationale that make Crimson edge a per day encounter, it doesn't look something incredibly tiring or that need some kind of supernatural concentration like stunning fist. That you need to do it to balance them it is clear, but it is just not justification enough for me.

The problem is that I certainly can't think of any REALLY good reason why any martial character would have abilities that are per encounter or per day.

Sure, you can explain caster types having per encounter abilities and per day abilities simply by saying "It's magic and that's the way it works." Which is enough to convince 95% of people. Whereas if you say, "They are martial powers, that's the way they work" likely won't convince nearly as many people. This is because people KNOW how non-magical people work but magic doesn't exist in real life so ANY excuse sounds plausible.

So, really you have one of two choices: Bow to the "realistic" or "logical" way of doing things and don't give fighters, rogues and similar characters any per encounter or per day abilities OR give them the abilities and not care that the justification is just as thin as the one for caster types.

If the second choice makes the game more fun the play then I say choose that one and gloss over the reasons.

 

[MaelStorm]

I just want to say this, it is a very interesting preview and it improved my opinion of 4e considerably, Damage seems to be way reduced, and healing surge (that IMHO indicate the number of hps you recovere with a second wind) sound reasonable, but I still can't put my head around the per encounter/per day powers. I don't see why torturous strike is a per encounter power, How the enemies seeing me doing it stop me from "twist the blade in the wound" a second time? or the first time they didn't know I wanted to hurt them?. I don't understand the rationale that make Crimson edge a per day encounter, it doesn't look something incredibly tiring or that need some kind of supernatural concentration like stunning fist. That you need to do it to balance them it is clear, but it is just not justification enough for me.

The weird logic in this concept is that the foes would be surprised once with your trick but would somehow be immune to a second attempt.

 

[azarias]

"I'm asking how it makes sense that a rogue can sneak attack with a crossbow (any crossbow) but not a bow"

Not that RL should be the end-all yardstick, but I'm pretty sure than, in RL, a crossbow is a more accurate weapon than a bow. The tests I recall show bows having greater range and power, but less accuracy. I think it boils down to aiming a crossbow like a gun, while the line from bow to target isn't straight. Not that I'm making any claim to expertise here.

Still, if you're prepared to accept that difference as a yardstick, it makes good sense for crossbows to be sneakable and bows not.

 

[Cam Banks]

It's very simple. Just as the plural of bacteria is bacteriae, the plural of ninja is ninjae. And the plural of katana is katanae.

Don't forget the plural of bonus is boni, and if you don't agree, your a looser. Rouge's with, for all intensive purposes, low stat's, are not loosers, per say.

Cheers,
Cam

 

[Lizard]

I, on the other hand, am a fan of Doc Savage.

And I find the 4e system very acceptable for a modern-era action game. So maybe it's just a matter of letting the idea "settle".

 

[Henry]

The weird logic in this concept is that the foes would be surprised once with your trick but would somehow be immune to a second attempt.

More than that -- in Book of Nine Swords, they explain it that when you use a maneuver, you wind up slightly out of position to try it again, or you've had to concentrate and focus your energies in doing it, and it takes a short while to get your focus back, to move back into position, or to get back in a position where it will work again. Add that to the "enemies saw you do it" maneuver, and it offers enough explanations why it won't work. After all, if you kidney punch someone in a fight, they likely won't be in position to just stand there and let you keep doing it over and over in the same place -- they're moving, ducking, weaving, etc. and that "blade twist" you just happened to be in the right place for at that time. Maybe the opportunity will come up again in a minute, but not right now.

Ultimately, ALL game mechanics have to be taken on "suspension of disbelief", just like most all movies or other entertainments. Why can't you hire a lawyer in monopoly to fight your arrest and going to jail? Why does rolling dice three times automatically spring you whether you succeed or not? Why couldn't Gandalf just call some of his eagle buddies and have Frodo drop the ring into Mount doom that same afternoon? Same idea -- you have to build justifications for why the "fun" route needs to be taken.

 

[Lizard]

Don't forget the plural of bonus is boni, and if you don't agree, your a looser. Rouge's with, for all intensive purposes, low stat's, are not loosers, per say.

Cheers,
Cam

Now, now. We should all stay calm, cool, and collective about this, while we discuss the rouges marital maneuver's.

 

[Jack99]

Don't forget the plural of bonus is boni, and if you don't agree, your a looser. Rouge's with, for all intensive purposes, low stat's, are not loosers, per say.

Cheers,
Cam

LOL

For a sec, you had me going and I was just about to post and poke a little fun at you... nice