D&D 5E An Argument for Why Paladins are the Strongest Class in 5E D&D

[Seramus]

Errata already solved that for you. Whether the damage from spirit guardians is radiant or necrotic depends on which was cast last. The most recent effect applies.

The damage does not stack. This is because stacking is deliberately restricted in the mechanics to prevent unexpectedly powerful combinations as much as possible. Seems WAI because not stacking damage prevents the powerful bard combo in your example.

Just checked the Errata and it seems you are correct. That eliminates overlapping Spirit Guardians, and lets you stand in simultaneous fireballs. Interestingly, it also means an Evoker could cast Evocation spells against Evocation spells so the target automatically saves and takes the smaller amount of damage. That would be pretty resource intensive, but a curious tactic.

 

[Helldritch]

Too much math. My head aches...

 

[Ashrym]

Overlapping magic didn't turn out as simple as one would have hoped, lol.

The important things is the more powerful effects take precedence, equal power means last effect takes precedence, and the underlying durations still exist because the lesser / prior effect is not getting dispelled.

In the necrotic vs radiant by two clerics a higher slot for more damage makes that damage type prominent. Last matters if they are equal effects. Both spells remain active for the duration so if the lowet cast spell continues to be concentrated on it comes back into effect by breaking concentration on the other cleric and ending that spell effect.

 

[Todd Roybark]

A mount summoned by Find Steed does not have to be ridden, you just have to be mounted for spells with the target of Self to affect both mount and rider.

A charging giant Elk, with Spirit Guardians on it, screams Patronus, and is an interesting battlefield control option.

Limited to a Bard, a M/C character, or Oath of the Crown, or table using the U/A expanded class features article.

 

[Seramus]

Yes. While overlapping damage is out, Bards can still have 2 Spirit Guardians running for the price of a single cast. Eventually you can get a nice Griffon with Armor of Agathys and Spirit Guardians cruising around while you do your own thing with Armor of Agathys and Spirit Guardians.

 

[FrogReaver]

So I was thinking more about the Paladin 2 / Bard (college of swords) build.

Pally 2 / Bard 2 = 2rd level slots. Can still dual wield without style. Have bardic inspiration dice. Missing out on ASI and paladin subclass feature/spells.

Pally 2 / Bard 3 = 1 more slot than pally 5. Get TWF style from college of swords subclass. You have 1 more spell slot than the full pally, alot more spells known, bardic inspiration dice that can be used for attacking and defense, expertise.

Pally 2 / Bard 4 = 3rd level slots compared. Full Paladin gets aura which is super good.

Pally 2 / Bard 5 = short rest recovery slots and access to level 3 spells.

Pally 2 / Bard 6 = 3 attacks and level 4 spells.

Losing out on the Paladin aura for me is a big deal - but honestly the swords college build has competitive at will damage and more resources for burst damage. It's an impressive build with few things I can complain about.

 

[FrogReaver]

College of whispers bard 5 / Paladin 2 / Hexblade 1

Booming Blade + College of Whispers damage + Paladin Smiting is a lot of damage when you hit. 1d8+3d6+1d8+4+2+4d8=43.5 on a hit = 26.1 per turn (@ 60% accuracy without crits factored in). Damage drops a little but not drastically as you use lower level slots.

At 60% to hit will use smites slower. Can typically spend 4-5 rounds per short rest with bard college of whispers ability. Can typically spend 14 or 15 rounds smiting.

 

[fearsomepirate]

Just checked the Errata and it seems you are correct. That eliminates overlapping Spirit Guardians, and lets you stand in simultaneous fireballs. Interestingly, it also means an Evoker could cast Evocation spells against Evocation spells so the target automatically saves and takes the smaller amount of damage. That would be pretty resource intensive, but a curious tactic.

The rule is about overlapping auras with persistent duration. Trying to perfectly time an AoE spell to detonate at the exact same time somebody else's spell does isn't really covered by that (and what's the scenario? You guess that the enemy caster is probably going to cast Fireball and Ready one of your own?), and in any case, those would be two different effects.

 

[Seramus]

Trying to perfectly time an AoE spell to detonate at the exact same time somebody else's spell does isn't really covered by that (and what's the scenario? You guess that the enemy caster is probably going to cast Fireball and Ready one of your own?), and in any case, those would be two different effects.

Enemies of the same type go at the same time. So if two of them cast the same spell it can result in an overlapping effect.

 

[fearsomepirate]

Enemies of the same type go at the same time. So if two of them cast the same spell it can result in an overlapping effect.

There is no such thing as a simultaneous turn in 5e.

DMs typically roll one initiative for all monsters of the same initiative type to save time, but

a) This is a convention, not a rule
b) The monsters still take their turns in sequence, because all ties most be resolved into a sequence.

There is thus no wiggle room in the overlapping aura rule for you to tell the DM that three pit fiends may have blasted you with fireballs, but you're only taking damage once.