D&D 5E An Argument for Why Paladins are the Strongest Class in 5E D&D

[fearsomepirate]

^^ corrected

 

[JiffyPopTart]

@Sabathius42

Here is the quote chain to make that easier to follow.

So what my post actually does is update Gladius Legis' math to include the extra damage from criticals in the calculation of the Paladin's damage.

So to answer your original question with more accurate math, the difference in damage is +1.925 for the paladin assuming they used 1 3rd level slot versus the wizards 1 5th level slot.

 

[FrogReaver]

So getting back to the example: +8.2 dmg for the fighter due to low enemy ac.
Your turn 1 netted you: 8.2-9.75 = -1.55 dmg
turn 2: -1.55+8.2 = +6.65 dmg
turn 3: 6.65+8.2 = 14.85 dmg
turn 4: 14.85+8.2 = 23.05 dmg

Fireball does
Turn 1: 24.4 (using your number without double checking) -> 24.4-9.75 = +14.65

You catch up on turn 3 in this fight. Could be turn 4 against higher AC. Fight's are typically over in 3-4 turns. Against low ac enemies haste was slightly better. Against moderate to heavier AC enemies fireball is likely better. But not by a lot in either case.

 

[FrogReaver]

So what my post actually does is update Gladius Legis' math to include the extra damage from criticals in the calculation of the Paladin's damage.

So to answer your original question with more accurate math, the difference in damage is +1.925 for the paladin assuming they used 1 3rd level slot versus the wizards 1 5th level slot.

1. Extra damage from crits is not straightforward as do you smite on the first attack if no crit or wait till the 2nd attack to see if you crit. Your decision point there matters and I never seen it stated.

2. It still doesn't sound like you are adressing my original question as you aren't looking at an average of 1 smite per turn. You are looking at smite only once per turn. Those are 2 different scenarios.

 

[Ashrym]

Vitriolic sphere does 17d4 damage in that 5th level slot at 9th level because of the lingering damage. At 30% save rate that should be about 37 damage per target.

10 tiny animated objects at 60% accuracy in the 5th level slots should be about 40 damage that requires concentration and the bonus action subsequent rounds leaving the regular action available.

Spirit guardians follows the rules fir overlapping spell effects:

The effects of different spells add together while the durations of those spells overlap. The effects of the same spell cast multiple times don’t combine, however. Instead, the most potent effect—such as the highest bonus—from those castings applies while their durations overlap.

Two overlapping areas of spirit guardians is just an area of spirit guardians. The steed is also +6 to hit instead of the character's +7 bonus at 6th level so if the character hits 60% of the time the steed hits 55% of the time. That's ~17 damage.

 

[fearsomepirate]

So getting back to the example: +8.2 dmg for the fighter due to low enemy ac.
Your turn 1 netted you: 8.2-9.75 = -1.55 dmg
turn 2: -1.55+8.2 = +6.65 dmg
turn 3: 6.65+8.2 = 14.85 dmg
turn 4: 14.85+8.2 = 23.05 dmg

Fireball does
Turn 1: 24.4 (using your number without double checking) -> 24.4-9.75 = +14.65

You catch up on turn 3 in this fight. Could be turn 4 against higher AC. Fight's are typically over in 3-4 turns. Against low ac enemies haste was slightly better. Against moderate to heavier AC enemies fireball is likely better. But not by a lot in either case.

Note that I completely neglected the possibility of advantage. There are lots of ways to get it on attacks. This is why at higher levels, Greater Invisibility is particularly potent. Also, once the Fighter is hasted, the party usually charges a little more recklessly through the dungeon to get the most out of it.

 

[Maxperson]

1. Extra damage from crits is not straightforward as do you smite on the first attack if no crit or wait till the 2nd attack to see if you crit. Your decision point there matters and I never seen it stated.

Speaking personally, I always used it on the first attack, since there was no guarantee of hitting, let alone critting with the second.

 

[fearsomepirate]

1. Extra damage from crits is not straightforward as do you smite on the first attack if no crit or wait till the 2nd attack to see if you crit. Your decision point there matters and I never seen it stated.

This is a good point...IME, paladins crit-fish a lot more when they have advantage.

 

[FrogReaver]

Speaking personally, I always used it on the first attack, since there was no guarantee of hitting, let alone critting with the second.

I typically would as well, though might change that under certain circumstances. It's more a question of whether that behavior was figured into the calculations that were posted.

 

[FrogReaver]

This is a good point...IME, paladins crit-fish a lot more when they have advantage.

If you consistently have advantage on 2+ attacks then I can see being stingy with your bigger smites until you crit. I'd probably still use the level 1 smites till then.