D&D 5E An Argument for Why Paladins are the Strongest Class in 5E D&D

[JiffyPopTart]

If anyone wants to add a data point...the average damage per round for a paladin with a 60% chance to hit who expends 1 (and only 1) smite per round including critical hits is 29.925

 

[FrogReaver]

If anyone wants to add a data point...the average damage per round for a paladin with a 60% chance to hit who expends 1 (and only 1) smite per round including critical hits is 29.925

View attachment 120071

Right, but that's not looking at a Paladin that spends an average of 1 smite per turn.

 

[Maxperson]

Or if that Fighter is a Battle Master. Or if you haste a Paladin, and that extra attack helps him land an extra Turn 1 Smite, or any Smite at all even.

How does Great Weapon Master play into these extra attacks?

 

[FrogReaver]

Find Steed duplicates Self targeting spells, which includes Spirit Guardians. Warhorse deals 2d6+4 damage for 11*60%=6.6 and then your own attacks on Turn 2, which could be a rapier and dagger (7.5+2.5)*60%=6. And it goes a little higher if trample happens (I didn't include that) or if you are using feats like Crossbow Expert.

Interesting I never realized find steed did that. I would think the DM would rule that Spirit Guardians does target more enemies than you - the ones that will be hit by it. So I'm not sure if that would fly in most games - not sure on he RAW or RAI on it though.

 

[JiffyPopTart]

Right, but that's not looking at a Paladin that spends an average of 1 smite per turn.

The amount of work it would take to generate a 3 dimensional graph of the 400 possibilities (more once you have to keep track of smite slot still available) of the Paladin spending 1 smite a turn, round after round, to generate an average damage over the course of an entire battle eludes me.

My chart shows two attacks, 1 3rd level smite on one of the attacks, and the average damage in each of the 400 possiblities.

 

[FrogReaver]

The amount of work it would take to generate a 3 dimensional graph of the 400 possibilities (more once you have to keep track of smite slot still available) of the Paladin spending 1 smite a turn, round after round, to generate an average damage over the course of an entire battle eludes me.

My chart shows two attacks, 1 3rd level smite on one of the attacks, and the average damage in each of the 400 possiblities.

I already explained the methodology in this thread. It actually wasn't that difficult. The reason it's important is to view how much of his damage potential was due to higher resource expenditure vs how much was due to he single spell slot on a turn actually being more powerful.

 

[Seramus]

Interesting I never realized find steed did that. I would think the DM would rule that Spirit Guardians does target more enemies than you - the ones that will be hit by it. So I'm not sure if that would fly in most games - not sure on he RAW or RAI on it though.

It's a very cool feature of Find Steed and Greater Find Steed. As for targeting, I think most DMs would have no problem with it since Guardian Spirits doesn't target anything but you. It's essentially a hazardous terrain, and enemies damaged by it are damaged at the beginning of their turn or when they enter the danger zone for the first time. Not when the spell is cast. Essentially like Fire Shield or Armor of Agathys (which both work with Find Steed).

 

[FrogReaver]

It's a very cool feature of Find Steed and Greater Find Steed. As for targeting, I think most DMs would have no problem with it since Guardian Spirits doesn't target anything but you. It's essentially a hazardous terrain, and enemies damaged by it are damaged at the beginning of their turn or when they enter the danger zone for the first time. Not when the spell is cast. Essentially like Fire Shield or Armor of Agathys (which both work with Find Steed).

I don't think that will be the typical ruling but it's still interesting.

 

[Seramus]

I don't think that will be the typical ruling but it's still interesting.

I've done it in AL without issue. Home games are always subject to DM generosity, of course.

 

[FrogReaver]

I've done it in AL without issue. Home games are always subject to DM generosity, of course.

Not as easy to pull off but I really want to see find steed and self cast polymorph.