D&D 5E (2014) An Argument for Why Paladins are the Strongest Class in 5E D&D

[FrogReaver]

The humble lore bard can output 28.8 DPR using 2 spell slots total at 6th level, assuming her concentration is not broken. Granted, the bard could be doing more interesting things than DPR.

What spells? What's the damage on turn 1?

 

[Gladius Legis]

Adds nearly nothing on turn 1.

Depends if the Wizard rolled a higher initiative than his target ally. In that case, said target ally is hasted from their very first turn.

 

[FrogReaver]

Depends if the Wizard rolled a higher initiative than his target ally. In that case, said target ally is hasted from their very first turn.

I don't think you are analyzing that correctly. Wizard could have used firebolt for 2d10. Fighter attacking for 1 more attack at 2d6+4 is exactly the same average damage. Wizard get's little to no gain out of haste on turn 1 - unless someone has hunter's mark (little gain) or there's a rogue using delay attacks (best case scenario)

 

[Seramus]

What spells? What's the damage on turn 1?

Find Steed (precast for a bog standard Warhorse) and Guardian Spirits. Damage on Turn 1 is... 22.8 since she has to cast the Guardian Spirits, but can begin adding her own attacks in on Turn 2.

 

[FrogReaver]

Find Steed (precast for a bog standard Warhorse) and Guardian Spirits. Damage on Turn 1 is... 22.8 since she has to cast the Guardian Spirits, but can begin adding her own attacks in on Turn 2.

Spirit Guardians only does 3d8 damage at level 6. Total of 13.5 max. (About 10 or so after save for half calculated).

What's giving you an additional 10+ damage on turn 1?
What's giving you a further additional 6+ damage on turn 2?

Maybe more importantly, is it Wise for a low bard to run into melee range on a horse for spirit guardians?

 

[Gladius Legis]

Wizard get's little to no gain out of haste on turn 1 - unless someone has hunter's mark (little gain) or there's a rogue using delay attacks (best case scenario)

Or if that Fighter is a Battle Master. Or if you haste a Paladin, and that extra attack helps him land an extra Turn 1 Smite, or any Smite at all even.

 

[Seramus]

Spirit Guardians only does 3d8 damage at level 6. Total of 13.5 max. (About 10 or so after save for half calculated).

What's giving you an additional 10+ damage on turn 1?
What's giving you a further additional 6+ damage on turn 2?

Find Steed duplicates Self targeting spells, which includes Spirit Guardians. Warhorse deals 2d6+4 damage for 11*60%=6.6 and then your own attacks on Turn 2, which could be a rapier and dagger (7.5+2.5)*60%=6. And it goes a little higher if trample happens (I didn't include that) or if you are using feats like Crossbow Expert.

 

[FrogReaver]

Or if that Fighter is a Battle Master. Or if you haste a Paladin, and that extra attack helps him land an extra Turn 1 Smite, or any Smite at all even.

While it's true haste will allow someone to spend some resource abilities faster - to me that seems like a weak argument to make regarding it's damage potential.

 

[Gladius Legis]

While it's true haste will allow someone to spend some resource abilities faster - to me that seems like a weak argument to make regarding it's damage potential.

Turn 1: Same base damage if targeted ally does nothing special. But potentially a considerable amount more front-loaded damage should the targeted ally actually take advantage of the opportunity.

Turn 2+: Base damage with Haste is 6-7 DPR higher as you said.

 

[FrogReaver]

Turn 1: Same base damage if targeted ally does nothing special. But potentially a considerable amount more front-loaded damage should the targeted ally actually take advantage of the opportunity.

Turn 2+: Base damage with Haste is 6-7 DPR higher as you said.

We are in agreement on the facts. It's just how much weight we are giving them.