D&D 5E (2014) An Argument for Why Paladins are the Strongest Class in 5E D&D

[FrogReaver]

There's no evasion. Focusing entirely on single target is a waste of time when comparing two classes.

Now attacking me by accusing me of wasting my time. Dang Max

 

[Maxperson]

Now attacking me by accusing me of wasting my time. Dang Max

Er, that wasn't directed at you. It's my opinion about my time and I'm not going to waste it. If you are focusing on single target only, you are not comparing the two classes in a way that meets the thread title.

 

[FrogReaver]

Er, that wasn't directed at you. It's my opinion about my time and I'm not going to waste it. If you are focusing on single target only, you are not comparing the two classes in a way that meets the thread title.

Then why even jump into a thread and question the premise we've spent the last 100 posts discussing? Isn't that also wasting your time?

 

[Maxperson]

Then why even jump into a thread and question the premise we've spent the last 100 posts discussing? Isn't that also wasting your time?

I was just wondering why you are focusing on single target? Each class shines under different circumstances. With a wizard non-damaging spells are often more effective than damage against single target, so focusing on DPR isn't fair to that class.

 

[FrogReaver]

I was just wondering why you are focusing on single target? Each class shines under different circumstances, and with a wizard. Also, non-damaging spells are often more effective than damage against single target, so focusing on DPR isn't fair to that class.

Sure. For an all in picture I totally agree. But I'm still curious what my level 5-8 wizard does against a single enemy. Paladin at least has options against multiple enemies - kill them 1 at a time as quickly as possible - which while not as good as an AOE (damage or control) is still pretty effective except against all but the largest enemy groups. Fireball is the best option I can come up with for a wizard and single target at those levels.

 

[Maxperson]

Sure. For an all in picture I totally agree. But I'm still curious what my level 5-8 wizard does against a single enemy. Paladin at least has options against multiple enemies - kill them 1 at a time as quickly as possible - which while not as good as an AOE (damage or control) is still pretty effective except against all but the largest enemy groups. Fireball is the best option I can come up with for a wizard and single target at those levels.

Hold Person if the target is human. Scorching Ray. You'll do less damage, but you aren't going to be blowing a Fireball better spent on multiple targets. Depending on the target and the Wizard's party, Ray of Enfeeblement could be better.

The best choice for a spellcaster is often not the most damaging choice. There are too many variables involved to just single out the most damage output for each class against that single target.

 

[fearsomepirate]

Can you go into a bit more detail about the graph please?

Y probability that you do at least X much damage. The black curve is a single Fireball, and the yellow curve is three shortsword attacks, with a 3rd-level smite and the College of Swords inspiration die.

Here is the code I use on AnyDice for this sort of thing:

===================== AnyDice Code======================

function: reroll R:n under N:n this D {
if R < N { result: D } else {result: R}
}

function: hit H:n mod M crit C dmg D bonus B extra E ac A {
if H=1 {result: 0}
else if H >= C {result: D+D+B+E}
else if H+M >= A {result: D+B}
else {result: 0}
}

function: save S:n mod B dc DC dmg DMG half H {
if S+B>=DC {result: H}
else {result: DMG}
}

GWA: [reroll 1d12 under 3 this d10]
GWV: [reroll 1d10 under 3 this d10]
GWS: [reroll 1d6 under 3 this d6]
DA: [highest of 1d20 and 1d20]
DD: [lowest of 1d20 and 1d20]


AC: 14

C: [hit d20 mod 7 crit 19 dmg GWS+GWS bonus 4 extra 0 ac AC]
W: [save d20 mod 1 dc 15 dmg 2d12 half 0]

output C+C named "Champion: Greatsword"
output W named "Wizard: Toll the Dead"

 

[Seramus]

I think the more important point is that a level 5+ Paladin's slots allow him to do 22.4 DPR using on average 1 level 1 spell slot per turn. A full caster will do 14 with magic missile in 2nd level slots. That's where the Paladin's real advantage lies IMO.

The humble lore bard can output 28.8 DPR using 2 spell slots total at 6th level, assuming her concentration is not broken. Granted, the bard could be doing more interesting things than DPR.

 

[fearsomepirate]

Sure. For an all in picture I totally agree. But I'm still curious what my level 5-8 wizard does against a single enemy. Paladin at least has options against multiple enemies - kill them 1 at a time as quickly as possible - which while not as good as an AOE (damage or control) is still pretty effective except against all but the largest enemy groups. Fireball is the best option I can come up with for a wizard and single target at those levels.

Casting Haste on the Fighter/Paladin/Barbarian is one of the most effective ways I've ever seen for a wizard to deal single-target damage. ;-)

 

[FrogReaver]

Casting Haste on the Fighter/Paladin/Barbarian is one of the most effective ways I've ever seen for a wizard to deal single-target damage. ;-)

Adds about 6-7 DPR per turn over just using firebolt on subsequent turns. Adds nearly nothing on turn 1. It's a relatively terrible DPR option. Probably still the best option he has - but it's not a really good one.