An Unexpected Victory, Unconditional Surrender, and Unfinished Business.

[Scribe]

Lol. So just to recap they left the ogl alone AND put it out CC and it still isn’t enough.

Once the 3.5 SRD is in CC, then they can walk off.

 

[Enrahim2]

If someone tries to rob a bank and is stopped, should we completely forget what they were attempting, just because we stopped them?

What would have happened if we didn't stop WotC, and they got everything they wanted? Do you think they've stopped wanting it?

No. I seriously hope WotC get their punishment. The punishment taking the form of a lasting severely reduced market share. Keep trying new systems! Support ORC rather than dmGuild, or whatever scheme will come for their exclusive vtt access!

If wizards really want to repent, and diminish their just punishment, they can try to offer it up to us. We could even give hints at what this could be. But fighting to make them give that rather than having their bottom line suffer, I don't really see the point?

Fighting for OGL1.0a was critical, as had that fallen, the entire ttrpg community would have suffered to the extent even the full bancruptsy of Hasbroo wouldnt be able to heal or redeem. Now the means and motivation for the perpetration is taken away, so the danger of more immediate harm is effectively over. This bring us to a new phase.

 

[Enrahim2]

The second body is the trust created from 23 years of continuous, non-messed-with use of the license. This body is, to quote Miracle Max, nearly dead. The second body, to be returned to health prior to many more years of non-messed-with existence, requires addressing the revocable issue and the no-longer-authorized issue.

The problem is the no longer authorized issue. As this appear to be some perversion of section 9 related to wizards power to make new versions, it is beyond me how anything ever being released under any version of ogl will not somehow fall in under possible nonsensical but highly dangerous bullying from WotC like we just experienced.

This is why I think 1.0b would actually be only giving a false sense of security, and we have to accept ORC as the only viable heir. While we bring that up to speed, the old king can watch over the OSR county until it take it's final breath.

 

[Maxperson]

They'll never break CC 5.1, because they can't. They very well might consider trying to break the OGL 1.0 again. In some future decade, under some totally different (and even worse) management.

What can be produced via OGL 1.0a that can't be produced via the CC SRD 5.1? All I can think of would be older edition stuff.

 

[robconley]

Lol. So just to recap they left the ogl alone AND put it out CC and it still isn’t enough.

Nope

 

[robconley]

ORC should be finished and embraced. If this happens I dont think any of the requested actions from wizards is in any way "neccessary". Ogl 1.0b is something that actually might be counterproductive, as some might be tempted to use that when they could have used ORC. Adding more SRDs into CC complicates matters with regard to what licence OSR should use without producing any more real security.

The cat is already out of the bag in that regard. ORC will be popular and widely used but it not going to be what the OGL was. I have seen this play out in the open source world enough times, starting in the 1990s. People can and will follow their own instinct and share content under a kaleidoscope of open licenses. The vast majority of these efforts will amount to a one-off.

My guess is that it will be mostly ORC, followed by various forms of CC-BY and CC-BY-SA, followed by folks testing Game mechanics can't be copyrighting, followed by continued use of the OGL, especially for communities that will have difficulty breaking away like Cepheus. But only if there is enough useful open content released for ORC. If there is an OGL-1.0b then there will less of push to move away but increasingly be relegated to supporting legacy work, assuming that ORC offers less restrictions. If ORC is a fixed up OGL then there will a small but significant naughty word to CC-BY of licenses due to the comparative lack of restrictions on remixing content other than those concerning attribution.

1.0a is now more or less ironclad, as long as it is not being used to create anything new that might pose serious competition to wizards. Releasing 5.1 as CC basically removes all other reasons wizards might ever consider trying to break that license.

Until authorization is defined within the license, it remains vulnerable. And due to development in licenses and contracts since 2000, we need irrevocable added as well.

So give wizards a break please. They have done all we can reasonably ask from them.

Interesting that you said that because that is what people told me when I wrote The new OGL 1.2, What is Victory? Sure I didn't see the apology from the CEOs, but the entire 5.1 SRD being under CC-BY works for me. And similar things were said to me back in December when I wrote The proposed OGL 1.1 is not an Open License. Fight for your hobby. While I am just one of thousands and Wizards doesn't know me compared to larger youtube channels. I like my odds, even if it takes five years to achieve the goal.

Of course suggesting some more drips for the sake of PR can be suggested, but trying to  demand it just make yourself an antagonist, when you could be working together for the betterment of the hobby.

Nice theory. But I think I will let my record across three decades regarding open content and open source speak for itself when it comes to my motivations. As for the betterment of the hobby,

A Network of One, Three Little Words, and an appreciated Victory.
Blackmarsh Updated
Périlleuses contrées: Fangenoire (Blackmarsh in French)
Stuff in the Attic
Less than some, but I think I accomplished a few things here and there.

 

[robconley]

Not going to lie, this seems a bit pipe dreamy.

Sometimes it seems unrealistic, and sometimes we get Pathfinder vs. 4e and now an entire SRD 5.1 under Creative Commons.

But i do agree with the post

Appreciate you taking the time to read it.

 

[Cadence]

What can be produced via OGL 1.0a that can't be produced via the CC SRD 5.1? All I can think of would be older edition stuff.

That feels like a lot of stuff over the years...

 

[Dustin_00]

This can't be true, I don't just trust Wizards

This can all be true right now and I don't trust corporate executives.

WotC can make this all happen again. And again.

For 3PP and VTTs, #ORC is the only way out.

 

[Mistwell]

With SRDs licensed under ORC the fate of the DnD system doesn't have to be tied to the fate of the DnD Brand. With the 5.1 SRD released under CC-BY 4.0. The creation of alternative SRDs has become a lot easier.

Uh, if you create an alternate SRD for use with ORC which uses the stuff in the Creative Commons license, you're now putting it under not one but TWO licenses. This seems, at best, useless and expanding page count and confusion. At worst, it means if there is ever a means discovered to circumvent or terminate one of the two licenses, or a conflict between the two, your publication would go down regardless of which two it happened to.

I mean, you CAN use both. But you're creating more mess and gaining very little.